Raid on Sol System-Another Option

I know (like many topics), this has been done to death, but I thought of another possbility that I don't believe has been discussed to date.

First, the consensus here seems to be that the SEM/GA should not attack Sol System, since that could be used as a rallying cry by the Mandarins (or their replacements, whoever and whatever that would be) to keep the SL together and make it a longer and much more brutal conflict than the GA wants or needs (since their major goal is the MAlignment--the SL is simply in the way).

Now, I for one don't fully subscribe to that notion, mostly since the ones who bring it up in textev all the time are the Mandarins, who haven't made a smart decision or shown any particular intelligence yet (there may be a place where the Manties say it; if so, I'd like to see it, because I don't recall any of them saying Sol is off limits).

However, let's say that in this instantance the SEM agrees that sending Honor to Earth would be a bad idea.

But that still leaves the ISLN command structure, any number of warships (which will tend to flock there if they know the system is 'off limits'), and with LOGCOM and other centers, it is also most likely to have the tech know-how to start coming up with counters to the GA advantages.

So you can't attack them and you can't afford to leave them alone. It is a puzzlement.

But...if the Beowulf attack goes through, what is stopping Beowulf from leading a raid on all those Martian stations and shipyards? Of course, they would be bringing along some of their brand-spanking new missiles that just came off the assembly line and maybe several new SD(P)'s they just purchased from the SEM or Grayson (for nothing says 'welcome to the club' like a BATRON of Invictus-Class SD(P)'s).


And then leaving, saying that they (Beowulf) have no interest in 'conquering' Sol, just that they want to be left alone (a bit of a lie, but truth is the first casulity of war, IIRC).

And even the Mandarins will be hard-pressed to argue that Beowulf doesn't have the right of self-defense from such attacks (not that they won't try and spin it that way).

And all those yards and command centers and tech centers and mothballed ships get blowed up real good...and remove a threat to the GA.

Just a thought. Don't claim it is a good one, but it is a bit of a different angle at a problem we've worried at before.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:I know (like many topics), this has been done to death, but I thought of another possbility that I don't believe has been discussed to date.

First, the consensus here seems to be that the SEM/GA should not attack Sol System, since that could be used as a rallying cry by the Mandarins (or their replacements, whoever and whatever that would be) to keep the SL together and make it a longer and much more brutal conflict than the GA wants or needs (since their major goal is the MAlignment--the SL is simply in the way).

Now, I for one don't fully subscribe to that notion, mostly since the ones who bring it up in textev all the time are the Mandarins, who haven't made a smart decision or shown any particular intelligence yet (there may be a place where the Manties say it; if so, I'd like to see it, because I don't recall any of them saying Sol is off limits).

However, let's say that in this instantance the SEM agrees that sending Honor to Earth would be a bad idea.

But that still leaves the ISLN command structure, any number of warships (which will tend to flock there if they know the system is 'off limits'), and with LOGCOM and other centers, it is also most likely to have the tech know-how to start coming up with counters to the GA advantages.

So you can't attack them and you can't afford to leave them alone. It is a puzzlement.

But...if the Beowulf attack goes through, what is stopping Beowulf from leading a raid on all those Martian stations and shipyards? Of course, they would be bringing along some of their brand-spanking new missiles that just came off the assembly line and maybe several new SD(P)'s they just purchased from the SEM or Grayson (for nothing says 'welcome to the club' like a BATRON of Invictus-Class SD(P)'s).

And then leaving, saying that they (Beowulf) have no interest in 'conquering' Sol, just that they want to be left alone (a bit of a lie, but truth is the first casulity of war, IIRC).

And even the Mandarins will be hard-pressed to argue that Beowulf doesn't have the right of self-defense from such attacks (not that they won't try and spin it that way).

And all those yards and command centers and tech centers and mothballed ships get blowed up real good...and remove a threat to the GA.

Just a thought. Don't claim it is a good one, but it is a bit of a different angle at a problem we've worried at before.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

1: The GA has absolutely no interest in conquering the League or Sol. It would be the height of insanity for them to even consider doing either. Occupying Sol alone would probably take every soldier in every ground combat force in the GA and than some.

2: The raid will still lead to a lot of anger on the part of the League's population, and even more wounded pride on their part.

Even if everyone ignored the fact that Manticore still built those ships and designed those missiles and had to sanction such an attack in order for the BSDF to launch it, the Mandarins would be painting it as "terrified Beowulfans coerced into attacking the Homeworld-Of-Humanity by all those Evil Manticorans warships looming threateningly in Sigma Draconis!"

If military raids are necessary, they should go after every single SLN yard/base in the Verge and start working inwards. Battle Fleet's Reserve is too valuable as a millstone around the SLN's neck to destroy too soon - let the League waste what little money and personnel they can scrape up on those obsolete hulls. If they're smart enough not to activate them, no harm done.

A GA battle fleet anywhere in the Sol system at this point would simply pour gasoline on the fire. It doesn't matter if they never cross the hyper limit and only blow up the Hyperion One installations after providing sufficient warning to evacuate. Even a Mission-of-Honor style appearance is too risky, as there's no telling what sort of surprises the MAlign may have prepared in Sol for such an eventuality, not to mention the chances of Battle Fleet panicking and trying to close the range.

Monroburton/roguevictory: I cannot argue with most of your points (I would note, RV, that I never once suggested conquering Sol system so that argument is not part of the discussion).

But that still leaves us the problem--we are leaving one of Core Worlds...with major Technical and Shipbuilding expertise available...as a "Free Zone" that SL ships can come too, get any updated anti-missile software/new missile technology/updated reports on what works and what doesn't against the GA, not to mention that if they don't know how to build a Technodyne pod, they're going to learn pretty damn fast.

My analogy is the Korean War, where Chinese (and possibly some Russian 'volunteers') would duck back over the border when being pursued by USAF jets.

Does the GA really want to leave that sort of force undisturbed?

Maybe so. Perhaps it will be better if Sol System starts clumping everything there and leaving the rest of the SL to fend for itself.

I just don't like leaving a strongpoint (which will probably get stronger) alone.

We shall see, eventually.

The SLN has already attacked the SEM at Spindle and Manticore. A massive response is justified.

While I would favor the complete destruction of all of Sol system industrial capacity and space habitats with inhabitants a more restricted attack on military targets would be more politically useful.

Attacking Sol is like stepping on a LEGO piece barefoot - it hurts a hell of a lot at the time, but it does not have much of a lasting impact. Lacoon II is like taking a baseball bat to the knee - you are down. The Alliance's response to Spindle and Manticore is Lacoon, not Sol.

The destruction of the Sol system SLN fleet bases, building yards and orbital manufacturing facilities/industrial plant is a military necessity. It would be stupid to not take them out. If Manticore and the GA limited itself just to military facilities, and those that can build military vessels, and take care to let the crews evacuate the bases, then they should be fine. There will be some denouncement about the 'Unwarranted and vicious attack on the Heart of the Solarian League, the Homeworld of the human race, the Sol System, (Holy) Terra herself' and it would make good PR for the SL, anyone with a brain would realize it's a target just by existing, and there would be no way the Mandarins could spin just the destruction of the military facilities and space industrial installations as being unwarranted or vicious. Especially if people are given time to evacuate. There would be too many witnesses on too many forms of media. I cannot imagine the GA ships that did the raid would not be broadcasting information as to why they are doing it and why all over the system, which would make it very very difficult for the Mandarin's pet media sources to spin control the aftermath of the raid.

What about having a task force in hyper and a couple of DDs and a parcel of recon drones swanning around under stealth near to Hyperion.

Whenever any ISLN units approach Hyperion the DD's pass the message to the task force to hyper in, blow the ISLN units away and then hyper out again.

I know !space is very big! and not all approaches will be covered, but given that most ISLN units will approach from the same general direction it may just prevent most ISLN units from getting possible upgrades.

Probably a dumb idea on my part, feel free to shoot me down in flames

A thought just occurred to me. What if the MAlign takes care of Hyperion One?

George J. Smith wrote:What about having a task force in hyper and a couple of DDs and a parcel of recon drones swanning around under stealth near to Hyperion.

Whenever any ISLN units approach Hyperion the DD's pass the message to the task force to hyper in, blow the ISLN units away and then hyper out again.

I know !space is very big! and not all approaches will be covered, but given that most ISLN units will approach from the same general direction it may just prevent most ISLN units from getting possible upgrades.

Probably a dumb idea on my part, feel free to shoot me down in flames

At some point fast, that threat would be tested. The RMN would have to either make good on their threat to attack any ship or ships coming close to the base or pull out. I think the first time the RMN would send the message, that area would be swamped with SLN units looking for the ships. They would not be able to allow activity like that from happening. It would be extremely bad for moral for the SLN and Mandarins, and the Sol system in general. Also the RMN can't afford to keep a large force parked on the Sol system's periphery for so long. They desperately need those ships elsewhere.

Besides, isn't the hyper limits way out in space? Like past Saturn or farther out?