House of steel question

The part of the book where it talks about the Manticore system it economy etc seems to have been written not by DW so to speak but by a person living in 1921 PD

So who "wrote" that part of the book and how much influence does that book have in the SL?

was it written by Jayne defense?

Alistair wrote:The part of the book where it talks about the Manticore system it economy etc seems to have been written not by DW so to speak but by a person living in 1921 PD

So who "wrote" that part of the book and how much influence does that book have in the SL?

was it written by Jayne defense?

It's been written by BuNine in the persona of "Jayne's Defense".

Since HoS is a big infodump for us fans, I would guess that what's in the book would be more than what would be publicly available "in Universe", particularly the military elements. I think it would be doubtfull for the "Invincible" Solarian League Navy to give much credence to a civilian organisation dependent on open information.

Rough guess anyway.

Mike.

No. All that would have been publicly available other than the short story at the begining of the book.

Can't have Jayne's PUBLISHED material if it is not public knowledge. Not to mention you cannot have Jayne's apologies regarding the Star Knight and BCL classes, now can you unless it is to be published PUBLICLY.

Open Jayne's today.

Open Clarke's today.

Open BIMCO reports.

All publicly avaialable. Just that most are unaware of what is actually inside these publications as most never read them or even know they exist.

Michael Riddell wrote:

Alistair wrote:The part of the book where it talks about the Manticore system it economy etc seems to have been written not by DW so to speak but by a person living in 1921 PD

So who "wrote" that part of the book and how much influence does that book have in the SL?

was it written by Jayne defense?

It's been written by BuNine in the persona of "Jayne's Defense".

Since HoS is a big infodump for us fans, I would guess that what's in the book would be more than what would be publicly available "in Universe", particularly the military elements. I think it would be doubtfull for the "Invincible" Solarian League Navy to give much credence to a civilian organisation dependent on open information.

Rough guess anyway.

Mike.

"Janes" is the real world defense publisher.

Essentially, ALL of House of Steel after the novella was written by various members of Bu9, sometimes singly, sometimes in collaboration. It was vetted/edited by tMWW.

See the About the Authors section, page 557 and after in the HB.

Worthy of note: at Honorcon, David would only sign these books at his citation in this back section of the book. He did not sign the front plate as is usual. If any of the others were present when the book was signed, he would pass it around for the other available signatures.

I quietly really admired that at the time.

dreamrider

wastedfly wrote:No. All that would have been publicly available other than the short story at the begining of the book.

Can't have Jayne's PUBLISHED material if it is not public knowledge. Not to mention you cannot have Jayne's apologies regarding the Star Knight and BCL classes, now can you unless it is to be published PUBLICLY.

Open Jayne's today.

Open Clarke's today.

Open BIMCO reports.

All publicly avaialable. Just that most are unaware of what is actually inside these publications as most never read them or even know they exist.

Er, could you be just a tad less didactic in your replies please, wastedfly? Understandably I don't appreciate being addressed as though I'm an idiot, though I have a fairly high tolerance having worked in customer service.

Now, moving on from that potential spat, if we're going to look at this from the perspective of "in Universe", what you've written is correct. However as the OP asked;

"..... and how much influence does that book have in the SL?"

My point still stands, at least in part. The SLN would be aware of the existence of Jayne's, but as the latter is a civilian agency, I doubt the former would give any information in it much credence due to professional blinkers of industrial proportions. As the storyline now stands, however, those blinkers have been.... shattered and I can see SLN officers poring over any and all information available, if they are of the mind set to do so.

However, even for what is meant to be an open source publication, I find that viewed as an "in Universe" source HoS is still a little too accurate and detailed in some areas. As a supersized infodump it's fine. I'm subscribed to the real Jane's myself and the information that I get is a bit more "woolly" compared with what's in HoS.

At the end of the day, it's all fiction, so all interpretations are valid. I'm not going to get too hung up on it - there are more important things in life to get het up over.

Mike.

Michael Riddell wrote:However, even for what is meant to be an open source publication, I find that viewed as an "in Universe" source HoS is still a little too accurate and detailed in some areas. As a supersized infodump it's fine. I'm subscribed to the real Jane's myself and the information that I get is a bit more "woolly" compared with what's in HoS.

I remember, once upon a time in the 80s, getting a classified briefing on a subject and realizing that a certain Janes publication both agreed with everything presented and provided more technically relevant details.

Clearly MWW tried to copy Jane's when he made Jayne's HV. Obviously MWW misspelled Janes' to Jayne's so as to dodge the ol' copy and trademark office. So similar I misspelled it in first post. I suppose you could take the opinion that Jayne's is only a local publication and therefore not circulated in the HV. I do not take this stance. From the name, it is obvious MWW's intentions and implications.

As for being didactic, its only didactic to those who hold an opposing viewpoint. There is no "nice way" to say you are wrong, ignorant, or both unless you don't even bother to tell them so. You can try to "infer", and patsy around an issue, get out the warm fuzzies, pom poms, and cotton puffs taking 5 hours to do what should have been done in 5 minutes.[Generally means you never address issue in question like a coward] Finishing sooner allowing the person you are talking to(at), to either move on, as most do, as most do not want an in-depth discussion forcing one to think deeply instead preferring the surface effects. Generally AKA Small talk. PS. I don't give a Shit about the weather or the discussion thereof.

A didactic talking style quickly weeds out those who actually want a discussion. Quickly finding out what they do, or do not know, on a given subject in their rebuttals. This allows one to dig in deeper quickly, or simply disengage as beyond hopeless. Preaching to the choir with several punch and cookie breaks thrown in, while relaxing, doesn't accomplish anything.

PS. I prefer brownies and water to punch and cookies.

wastedfly wrote:Clearly MWW tried to copy Jane's when he made Jayne's HV. Obviously MWW misspelled Janes' to Jayne's so as to dodge the ol' copy and trademark office. So similar I misspelled it in first post. I suppose you could take the opinion that Jayne's is only a local publication and therefore not circulated in the HV. I do not take this stance. From the name, it is obvious MWW's intentions and implications.

It wasn't MWW that invented Jaynes. It was Ad Astra, for their supplementary books. There have been arguments about how canonical the Ad Astra books are. Some of those people from Ad Astra are now on BuNine. The HoS article specifically labeled as an apology from Jaynes is clearly referencing the Ad Astra books. But the rest of the articles are not specifically marked as Jaynes, so it is not absolutely clear that they are.

In any case, it was Ad Astra and BuNine that wrote the Jaynes material, not MWW.

SWM wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Clearly MWW tried to copy Jane's when he made Jayne's HV. Obviously MWW misspelled Janes' to Jayne's so as to dodge the ol' copy and trademark office. So similar I misspelled it in first post. I suppose you could take the opinion that Jayne's is only a local publication and therefore not circulated in the HV. I do not take this stance. From the name, it is obvious MWW's intentions and implications.

It wasn't MWW that invented Jaynes. It was Ad Astra, for their supplementary books. There have been arguments about how canonical the Ad Astra books are. Some of those people from Ad Astra are now on BuNine. The HoS article specifically labeled as an apology from Jaynes is clearly referencing the Ad Astra books. But the rest of the articles are not specifically marked as Jaynes, so it is not absolutely clear that they are.

In any case, it was Ad Astra and BuNine that wrote the Jaynes material, not MWW.

I actually used Jane's in HotQ and didn't worry about it at all (because it didn't occur to me to, given the context). When Ad Astra started on SITS, they altered the spelling for the very reasons cited above.

FWIW, Jayne's is widely distributed in the Honorverse, not simply an SKM publication. My version of in it the Honorverse is not nearly so well-informed as Ad Astra's version, however, and the more "speculative" data in it (i.e., anything not already known the Solarian ONI) is routinely disregarded by the Invincible Solarian League since, after all, its intelligence sources must be better than that stupid bunch of civilians. Besides, what does it matter what the clever little Japanese are up to when we clearly have a superior fleet sitting in Port Arthur ready to cut them back down to size if they're foolish enough to try anything?

The biggest problem the SLN's intelligence people have is that (aside from a few fairly-far-down-the-totem-pole characters I've introduced you to, they are totally satisfied that their intelligence sources are the broadest and their analysts are the finest to be found anywhere in the explored galaxy. If they weren't, after all, the ISLN wouldn't be the ISLN and would actually have a peer competitor somewhere, which it manifestly does not.

As for the degree of detail of the entries in HoS, we wanted an "in-universe" feel for it and this seemed the best compromise between that and giving readers a lot more detailed information than they've gotten from the infodumps in the books.