GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets

Split away from the "Light Bulb ..." thread:

lyonheart wrote:

lyonheart wrote: Technodyne of Yildin, is probably ranked rather high on the GA's target list since they're a major contractor for the SLN, building SD's among other things.

Weird Harold wrote:J6P is correct that this line of discussion is off-topic for this thread, but...

TIY is probably not as high on the list as you might think. They're at best a minor irritant and under a lot of legal pressure over a few "lost" cruisers; at best they're a minor irritant to be taken out when the GA happens to be in the area.

(also as a supplier of warships to all and sundry as well as manufacturer of system defense missiles and Cataphract pods, they're probably a pretty tough target better left to wither on the vine, a la McArthur's island hopping.)

Hi Weird Harold,

Technodyne of Yildin is hardly a minor irritant.

First, I believe Yildin was the second or third wormhole discovered so its already on the list for that, its a major SLN contractor including SD's, by Solly standards it has an excellent R&D division, the nominal source of the cataphract 2-stage missiles [not a DDM], besides having a major SLN in the system [no inhabited planet] beyond any question over revenge regarding Monica.

Secondly, there's the implication that TIY's connection with Manpower should indicate it knows much more about the MAlg, which would put it at the top of some people's list for that alone.

While TIY might be a tougher target than most other SLN bases, its tech is still way behind the GA's, so 2 squadrons of SDP's ought to be plenty.

L

he Yilden system may well be on the GA target list, because of the wormhole and SLN shipyard and base. I don't think the corporation, TIY, is a particular target, though.

As big as TIY is and despite its seat on Mesa's board of driectors, it is still outside of the League and probably outside of The MAlign Onion for the most part. Trashing the shipyard in Yilden is a priority for striking at the SLN, but pursuing TIY further would just be a wasteful vendetta that distracts from the Primary strategic goal -- the dissolution of the League.

Information might well be recovered from TIY headquarters in Yilden that affect the Secondary strategic goal of finding and destroying the MAlign -- perhaps a clue tying the Renaissance Factor to the MAlign, or a clue to the existence of Darius?

Hi Weird Harold,

Yup, there are many reasons to strike at Yildin and TIY.

Yildin is a league member, because of the wormhole and an obvious military target.

However following clues to its knowledge regarding the MAlg will require rather more finesse than laser-heads, how that is accomplished could be a fascinating story [or shudder, another series] that RFC may have already started.

L


**quote="Weird Harold"**Split away from the "Light Bulb ..." thread:

lyonheart wrote: Technodyne of Yildin, is probably ranked rather high on the GA's target list since they're a major contractor for the SLN, building SD's among other things.**/quote**

Weird Harold wrote:J6P is correct that this line of discussion is off-topic for this thread, but...

TIY is probably not as high on the list as you might think. They're at best a minor irritant and under a lot of legal pressure over a few "lost" cruisers; at best they're a minor irritant to be taken out when the GA happens to be in the area.

(also as a supplier of warships to all and sundry as well as manufacturer of system defense missiles and Cataphract pods, they're probably a pretty tough target better left to wither on the vine, a la McArthur's island hopping.)

Hi Weird Harold,

Technodyne of Yildin is hardly a minor irritant.

First, I believe Yildin was the second or third wormhole discovered so its already on the list for that, its a major SLN contractor including SD's, by Solly standards it has an excellent R&D division, the nominal source of the cataphract 2-stage missiles [not a DDM], besides having a major SLN in the system [no inhabited planet] beyond any question over revenge regarding Monica.

Secondly, there's the implication that TIY's connection with Manpower should indicate it knows much more about the MAlg, which would put it at the top of some people's list for that alone.

While TIY might be a tougher target than most other SLN bases, its tech is still way behind the GA's, so 2 squadrons of SDP's ought to be plenty.

L

he Yilden system may well be on the GA target list, because of the wormhole and SLN shipyard and base. I don't think the corporation, TIY, is a particular target, though.

As big as TIY is and despite its seat on Mesa's board of driectors, it is still outside of the League and probably outside of The MAlign Onion for the most part. Trashing the shipyard in Yilden is a priority for striking at the SLN, but pursuing TIY further would just be a wasteful vendetta that distracts from the Primary strategic goal -- the dissolution of the League.

Information might well be recovered from TIY headquarters in Yilden that affect the Secondary strategic goal of finding and destroying the MAlign -- perhaps a clue tying the Renaissance Factor to the MAlign, or a clue to the existence of Darius?[/quote]

lyonheart wrote:Yup, there are many reasons to strike at Yildin and TIY.

The question is are they urgent enough to pursue TIY as well as attacking Yildun? The system is a relatively high-priority target, but I have my doubts about the importance of the corporation.

lyonheart wrote:Yildin is a league member, because of the wormhole and an obvious military target.

Yildun has no habitable planets and is owned outright by TIY; can it be a League Member? I was under the impression that Yildun, like Mesa, was NOT a League member even though located deep within the borders of the League.

lyonheart wrote:However following clues to its knowledge regarding the MAlg will require rather more finesse than laser-heads, how that is accomplished could be a fascinating story [or shudder, another series] that RFC may have already started.

Depending on what MAlign agents (or programmed assassins) are about to turn the confrontation violent, TIY is one of the few entities that likely know just how outclassed they are by RMN/RHN tech. I would expect to see a demonstration of LAC stealth or Mistletoe to take out the system defense pods (and the controller(s) followed by a quick unconditional surrender of TIY assets. The SLN forces might require a more pointed demonstration of missile advantage, but another collection of worthless warships can be expected there.

Yilden might be not be such a walkover.

Until very recently, Technodyne has been heavily involved with Haven's military R&D. So is is probable that unlike the SLN, Technodyne has an accurate picture of the Haven sector military and moreover has had that knowledge for a considerable period of time. Given the number of years Technodyne has been involved in tech transfers to Haven, they have had more than enough time to cultivate sources within Haven's R&D establishment. To a certain extent the transfer of information will be a two way street. They'll be able to determine from what Haven is interested and not interested in buying as well as hints from procurement officers where the holes are in Haven's military tech and in what direction Haven is moving. So although they may not be privy to the latest greatest technology the GA has, they are probably well aware of the capabilities of slightly older Haven and Manticorian technologies.

By all accounts Technodyne is a very successful military contractor and like any business Technodyne will try to anticipate it's customer's future needs so that it can develop products which meet that need. So it surely has it's R&D department working to develop products which will be useful in that type of a fight. Therefore, there may well be prototypes scattered around Yilden system that have at the minimum similar capabilities to slightly older Haven technology. R&D being R&D, some of those prototypes may well exceed that technology, particularly in specific areas (for example equal except for exponentially increased shield strength to test a prototype shield generator etc).

In addition Yilden will have ships under construction already. We've been thinking of a year to build this ship, 2 years to build that ship etc. Unlike re-purposed civilian yards which will be starting from scratch and will need the entire time (and then some, since it always takes longer to do something for the first time). Yilden's yards will have ships partway through that process. So they could take a half done ship at the 6 month point, change the design on the fly to incorporate their latest R&D successes and have it done in 8 months instead of 12. Sure it an in progress upgrade wouldn't be as good as something built from the keel out with the new technologies but it would be both faster to build and better than existing SLN ships.

biochem wrote:Yilden might be not be such a walkover.

Indeed, if I were sitting at Mount Royal advising the GA on what targets to go after, as soon as Mycroft is fully emplaced throughout the MBS and Beowulf, I'd send Grand Fleet to Yildun to take out Technodyne and seize the junction. I'd go in with such overwhelming force advantage that there would be a chance to take the objectives with minimal damage.

Then I'd have everyone interrogated where treecats can assist. I suspect that the prospect that the graser torpedoes that took out Black Rock Clan might have been built there would be sufficient to get a large number of 'cats for that particular job.

A lot of the rank-and-file workers could actually go back to work at TIY under new management once they'd been thoroughly vetted by the 'cats. The GA might not trust them to build anything for their own use, but they could probably crank out modern LACs and base modules for system defense, to be sold to newly-liberated former OFS protectorates under very generous terms.

A couple of items about Yildun. First, it has a junction with two termini. We don't know where they go, but I assume one has to be deep in league territory because Yildun itself is 183 ly from Sol (CoS.28) That puts it rather deep into the shell. Note that the text says it's on the edge of the Core and the Shell, but elsewhere it's said that the Core is about 100 ly in radius, which is a bit of a perplex.

In fact, I suspect that the Yildun system was discovered from the other end. With no habitable planets, there is zero reason to colonize it before the junction was discovered. As a second note, I know of no reason why an A1 star should have no planets.

I suspect that, as a major arms supplier, it almost has to be a league member.

There's a Technodyne of Yildun and a Technodyne of Mesa. Are they the same company? I don't know of any textev that says they are; in fact I wouldn't be suprised if "Technodyne of Mesa" was a copyedit error and it should be Technodyne of Yildun.

biochem wrote:In addition Yilden will have ships under construction already. We've been thinking of a year to build this ship, 2 years to build that ship etc. Unlike re-purposed civilian yards which will be starting from scratch and will need the entire time (and then some, since it always takes longer to do something for the first time). Yilden's yards will have ships partway through that process. So they could take a half done ship at the 6 month point, change the design on the fly to incorporate their latest R&D successes and have it done in 8 months instead of 12. Sure it an in progress upgrade wouldn't be as good as something built from the keel out with the new technologies but it would be both faster to build and better than existing SLN ships.

Even a generous allowance for refit-during-construction success still runs into the known issue of the SL's slower construction tempo. I don't believe Yildun could possibly have more than a handful of SD hulls and a few score smaller ships in their possession. Hell, call it 24 SDs and 120 screen - that's still toast against a squadron of SD(P)s.

A mothball collection of prototype testing platforms might be interesting, but couldn't be expected to defeat a squadron of SD(P)s unless they have something silly, like a nova trigger or black hole gun. Either they have enough range and control to attack at 60+ million kilometres or sufficient stealth to get within 200-500,000km for surprise graser shots.

And if some system in the League actually has a hundred building slips ready to start refitting partially completed warships, you can bet it's one of the first on the GA's neutralise(which does not necessarily mean destroyed) list.

JohnRoth wrote:With no habitable planets, there is zero reason to colonize it before the junction was discovered. As a second note, I know of no reason why an A1 star should have no planets.

The word "habitable" is present in your first sentence but absent in the second.

The way a star has no habitable planets is that there don't happen to be any planets in the "Goldilocks Zone" (where the liquid phase of water dominates) with a sufficiently-large iron core to produce a magnetic field to protect the atmosphere against stellar wind. It's also quite possible that a huge moon like ours is necessary to create the tidal forces to keep the mantle molten and allow the core to rotate fast enough.


Take our own solar system. If the Sun were a bit hotter, this planet could have water only in its vapor form, and while Mars would be in the Goldilocks Zone, its atmosphere would be too thin to support human habitation.

Technodyne is known to be a member of the governing board of the planet Mesa. They are also known to have designed both the cataphract (some of which curiously fell into the hands of the rogues who tried to obliterate Torch) and missile pods (which curiously fell into the hands of Monica). Manticore knows all this.

I think Technodyne is definitely a target.

JohnRoth wrote:A couple of items about Yildun. First, it has a junction with two termini. We don't know where they go, but I assume one has to be deep in league territory because Yildun itself is 183 ly from Sol (CoS.28) That puts it rather deep into the shell. Note that the text says it's on the edge of the Core and the Shell, but elsewhere it's said that the Core is about 100 ly in radius, which is a bit of a perplex.

In fact, I suspect that the Yildun system was discovered from the other end. With no habitable planets, there is zero reason to colonize it before the junction was discovered. As a second note, I know of no reason why an A1 star should have no planets.

I suspect that, as a major arms supplier, it almost has to be a league member.

There's a Technodyne of Yildun and a Technodyne of Mesa. Are they the same company? I don't know of any textev that says they are; in fact I wouldn't be suprised if "Technodyne of Mesa" was a copyedit error and it should be Technodyne of Yildun.

Actually, as I recall, the text says that Yildun is situated at the boundary between the denser populations of the League and the lesser populations. Measuring it on my Honorverse map, 183 light-years from Sol puts it at the boundary between the Shell and the Protectorates. This fits the text nicely.

Yes, the Technodyne which owns Yildun is the same Technodyne of Mesa. Technodyne is on the board of directors for the planet Mesa.