Brigade XO wrote:If you talk about the League Government imposing tariffs on trade with Manticore you have to be really specific about what and how that is going to be done and enforced.
As usual, a very insightful post Brigade. And you are right about needing to be specific, but I don't have specifics. It's an issue that requires lots of input, data, and experts in Honorverse finance and trade. It seems to be an ugly matter topically, though, and I have always sympathized with the Sollies on this issue.
Brigade XO wrote:If you mean charging Manticorian ships a fee to opereate in SL space, that fee will essentialy be passed along to either or any parties that are involved with cargo on a MMM ship operating in SL territory. That probably also wouldn't happen out where OFS is in the Verge because if they chare SL Star Nation specific fees that start to look really too much like they have actualy taken over.
Yes, some sort of tariffs on goods and fees to operate in SL space.
I was thinking that each system or port of call would have agents checking manifests, etc., and fees charged according to freighter and cargo weight and additional taxes levied based on specific cargo. Much as Manticore does itself.
Brigade XO wrote:Manticore, on the other hand, could retaliate by charging and SL flagged ship an additional fee for juction transit (remember there is ship tonnage and cargo tonnage invollved in the calculation in the rate structures. It could also charge for SL manufactured and or owned goods (or both) for junction transit. Makes a mess for the SL manufactures and shippers trying to trade in places where the fastest or even only practical route goes via the Junction.
No doubt Manticore would have retaliated, and a trade war, not unlike what we presently have with China, would kick off. America won against China because China's economy is more dependent on us. I'm thinking the SKs economy depended more on the SL than vice versa. The SK made its fortune on the backs of the thousands of SL systems, mostly. It's also why I said, as far as trade goes, the SL could have boycotted the MWJ. It shouldn't have NEEDED to trade with planets in Neobarbaria. I'm thinking the SL could have waited them out.
Brigade XO wrote:There are already various fees and duties which come from interstellar trade that support the SL government and military. As they seem to not already be charging any other Star Nation the basic fees, it gets interesting to single out Manticore.
True, and what an interesting observation. It also parallels incidents that happened right here in America when we banned certain auto imports being sold too cheaply in America. American auto makers couldn't compete with a $7000 luxury car. Our current president is presently trying to get on top of it by calling it a
National Security risk.
Brigade XO wrote:Before the unpleasentnes between Mancticore and the SL, About the only ongoing prohibitions on wormhole transits deal with warships or flagged vessels of Star Nations at war and that is more in the customs and and export prohibitions. SL not letting -officialy- people sell various things to PRH and Manticore not letting anything PRH use the network.
Indeed. The precedent had long been set. Some sort of restrictions should have been emplaced to prevent the SL from being exploited, regardless of "cheap prices of goods" in the long run, for the betterment of SL owned companies. The same American greed and fixation on cheaper prices is what allowed China to invade the American market to the exclusion of American interests. We were our own worst enemy. There are many areas where the SL could have corrected the problem, but it'd take a team of professionals to sort it all out. In fact, the experts had their problems as well. HoS states the SK had issues with the original treaty with Beowulf over the juncion being too advantageous for Beowulf.
Brigade XO wrote:Customs diffiulties are, well, diverse. Honor pissed off a lot of people by enforcing the SKM regulations (both SKM materials being exported and things prohibited) at Basilisk Station and apparently that may not happen so much for things just going through the Junction which doesn't get inspected quite so well. Same with just wormhole bridges. If it is just passing through and not being either onloaded, off loaded for the local system, the manafests are seemingly enough. The Junction and we should presume the various termini have transhipment warehouses for vessels to drop cargo or take it on which is going other than to that system and where the ship itself is headed. Some would be Bonded Warehouses though that wouldn't make them immune from customes inspection.
At the stage we see before the 1st SKM-PRH war, for the SL to have imposed SKM specific fees on their flagged vessels or goods would have raised a serious problem as way too much of the SL had become used to if not dependent on the lower costs MMM brought to the table . It can't just be the lower Junction fees. Once inside the League- comming in through Beowulf or the Hennesey via Erewhon, the ships had to have some other practical advantages to make them compeditive. We haven't been told that being a MMM flagged ship gets you a reduced rate on the Idaho-Zunker brige for instance.
So what is it? Lower construction and repair costs at Manticore? More efficient and durable equipment leading to lower operating expenses? Better operationg practices? Lower insurance rates (typicaly a combination of factores but if you are going to Silesia the rates might be higher than to the Core Worlds due to Silesia piracy etc difficulties. Lower financing rates? We aren't told. But even some of the Transtellar Shipping Lines lease MMM ships and crews for their routes so there must be something.
Indeed. My guess is the availability of goods not found in the SL. Like furniture made of special woods. Metals sold cheaper because of an abundance. Foodstuffs grown only on certain planets, etc. But I can't imagine anything came via the MWJ that was critical to Solarian life. The critical nature of timely banking info withstanding. The SL allowed the SK to grab and hold them by the balls. And now they're squeezing. Is it too late for the SL to plug the leak in the lake, like America?
Again, another outstanding post, which requires my brain cells to hold hands much tighter. And there's already another. As my English friends across the pond say "Brilliant!"
perhaps