New Manty ship ideas.

I could see a keyhole I or II type carrier CHole if you like CLOC? Something to carry 25-50 Keyhole platforms. Spares and extras for ships that don't have keyhole.

One could make a similar pod carrier CPOD for adding pods to a system or fleet as well. Deploy as many pods as a fleet can tow add in Keyhole systems and you can just use whatever you have for fleets.

No need for SD(P), just use what you have, even captured Sollie SD's can tow pods and Keyhole systems. With them firing pods of Mk16 / 23 / 25's they are almost as good as SD(P) and with just a few Carriers one can have equivalent forces without fancy pod naughts.

The GA could field 1000 SD with CPOD CLOC and CLAC. Twice Filareta's fleet with a donkey system hauling in 60 pods of MK23's each, that would have made for a big different in Raging justice. Half a million Mk23's in fully controlled Apollo solvos that should clear out everything.

Lord Skimper wrote:I could see a keyhole I or II type carrier CHole if you like CLOC? Something to carry 25-50 Keyhole platforms. Spares and extras for ships that don't have keyhole.

Ships that can't carry keyhole will have no use for spare keyhole parts.
Also, you're talking about somewhere between 3 and 6 million tons of cargo space dedicated to Keyholes; Never mind the fact that no single ship can actually use that many, if you are sending your fleet away on a mission where supplying that many spares for that particular piece of equipment seems like a necessary thing to do, your planning has already made quite a few missteps.

One could make a similar pod carrier CPOD for adding pods to a system or fleet as well. Deploy as many pods as a fleet can tow add in Keyhole systems and you can just use whatever you have for fleets.

We call those "Ammunition Ships"? Like HMS Volcano from SoS? You remember that one, right?

No need for SD(P), just use what you have, even captured Sollie SD's can tow pods and Keyhole systems.

They can tow pods, yes. They can't really tow Keyholes. I mean, they can probably carry them around, but they sure as hell can't use them.

With them firing pods of Mk16 / 23 / 25's they are almost as good as SD(P) and with just a few Carriers one can have equivalent forces without fancy pod naughts.

They're nowhere near as good, their fire control is inadequate to control Apollo salvoes (or MDM salvoes in general), and they'd still be sucking up personnel you could use to crew real warships.

The GA could field 1000 SD with CPOD CLOC and CLAC. Twice Filareta's fleet with a donkey system hauling in 60 pods of MK23's each, that would have made for a big different in Raging justice. Half a million Mk23's in fully controlled Apollo solvos that should clear out everything.

No, they can't. Unless you happen to know about 6 to 7 million trained crewmen that the rest of us and RFC have missed, they sure as hell can't.


I just have to ask: Why all this insistence that the captured solly SDs have to be used for something, anything in GA service? What's the bloody point of all this brainstorming when every single proposal so far has been easily countered by simple things like crew and maintenance requirements?

The E wrote:
I just have to ask: Why all this insistence that the captured solly SDs have to be used for something, anything in GA service? What's the bloody point of all this brainstorming when every single proposal so far has been easily countered by simple things like crew and maintenance requirements?

He dreams big. I have had some similer ideas to those he has mentioned. He just voices them.
Gotta give him credit for creativity and for so many ideas, even if they get shot down. Success is 99% perserverence. (I may have the quote wrong, but the idea stands)

Commodore Oakius wrote:

The E wrote:
I just have to ask: Why all this insistence that the captured solly SDs have to be used for something, anything in GA service? What's the bloody point of all this brainstorming when every single proposal so far has been easily countered by simple things like crew and maintenance requirements?

He dreams big. I have had some similer ideas to those he has mentioned. He just voices them.
Gotta give him credit for creativity and for so many ideas, even if they get shot down. Success is 99% perserverence. (I may have the quote wrong, but the idea stands)

The problem is that is he repeatedly ignores explicit text evidence and infodumps which contradict his proposals. He has admitted he is a philosopher with no technical background and no interest in getting technical background, but insists on making technical proposals with no basis in reality. He has also stated that he has not read the infodumps and apparently has no interest in doing so--he just wants to keep making his proposals without worrying about whether the author has already dismissed them ten years ago. And when people with technical backgrounds point out blatant errors in his proposals he either persists in saying his proposal will still work (despite his lack of technical knowledge), or ignores it completely and makes another outrageous proposal. He does not seem to have a learning curve, because he frequently repeats the same mistakes and forgets the same infodumps that were pointed out to him previously. And he has been doing this multiple times a day every day for nearly a year.

SWM wrote:The problem is that is he repeatedly ignores explicit text evidence and infodumps which contradict his proposals. He has admitted he is a philosopher with no technical background and no interest in getting technical background, but insists on making technical proposals with no basis in reality. He has also stated that he has not read the infodumps and apparently has no interest in doing so--he just wants to keep making his proposals without worrying about whether the author has already dismissed them ten years ago. And when people with technical backgrounds point out blatant errors in his proposals he either persists in saying his proposal will still work (despite his lack of technical knowledge), or ignores it completely and makes another outrageous proposal. He does not seem to have a learning curve, because he frequently repeats the same mistakes and forgets the same infodumps that were pointed out to him previously. And he has been doing this multiple times a day every day for nearly a year.

Ahh, I see. My mistake. When put that way...

Then there was the time Skimper repeatedly told David that David didn't understand how the Star Empire was organized...

Commodore Oakius wrote:

SWM wrote:The problem is that is he repeatedly ignores explicit text evidence and infodumps which contradict his proposals. He has admitted he is a philosopher with no technical background and no interest in getting technical background, but insists on making technical proposals with no basis in reality. He has also stated that he has not read the infodumps and apparently has no interest in doing so--he just wants to keep making his proposals without worrying about whether the author has already dismissed them ten years ago. And when people with technical backgrounds point out blatant errors in his proposals he either persists in saying his proposal will still work (despite his lack of technical knowledge), or ignores it completely and makes another outrageous proposal. He does not seem to have a learning curve, because he frequently repeats the same mistakes and forgets the same infodumps that were pointed out to him previously. And he has been doing this multiple times a day every day for nearly a year.

Ahh, I see. My mistake. When put that way...

Skimper is....well, Skimper. Outside of of the occasional raised blood pressure, he does have the talent of posting threads that get lots of responses and those responses do help such technically unsaavy folks such as I, so he does make a contribution....well, sort of.

I'd hesitate to call him a troll, because he does end up generating good information, if for no reason that ")(&*&%^$^% Skimper, you can't do that because..."

To borrow from the movies "A man has to know his limitations, which is why you seldom see me in the more technical discussions. Logistics, Politics and people, well, I'm there. Skimper accepts no limitations....he is limitless in his speculations....which can hack off more practical thinkers no end...

And who knows, he has had a good idea or two in his time here (can't really remember them right now, but I do remember that he had a couple). Maybe the best is yet to come....

I have read some of the info dumps and I don't recall telling David that David doesn't know something about the star empire, unless it was something based on the British Empire. I may and will disagree with anyone though.

I like that I am limitless !

I used to sleep through my Physics classes. Boring!

I still went to the best University.

Reality? Really?

Too hard to quote multiple people on a touch screen.

The GA doesn't have to use the Sollie SD's, but I just pointed out that they could be used. Which alludes to the notion that the Sollies could do this. Without building any SD(P). Of course a similar thing could be used by the small ships too. Although with fewer carriers. CLAC CLOC CPOD...Could even use BC(P) sized carriers which would be or could be as fast as an Agamemnon, unlike a full sized CLAC.

Hutch wrote: And who knows, he has had a good idea or two in his time here (can't really remember them right now, but I do remember that he had a couple). Maybe the best is yet to come....

Cite, please?

I can't, for the life of me, recall *anything* he has proposed that could come within MDM range of a "good idea".

Lord Skimper wrote:I like that I am limitless !

You are, but this is not a limitless universe. I mean, you should go back to Lensmen or something like that, there's certainly enough room in that universe to accommodate all the ideas you have.

I used to sleep through my Physics classes. Boring!

I still went to the best University.

Reality? Really?

And that explains everything that's wrong with your approach. The Honorverse is a "firm" SF universe (i.e. mostly hard, but with some handwavium applied in areas), your approach however is a "soft" one, in which everything that can be imagined is possible.

The GA doesn't have to use the Sollie SD's, but I just pointed out that they could be used. Which alludes to the notion that the Sollies could do this.

The sollies. After all this time finding ways for the GA and Manticore to use the captured SDs, now you're claiming that these are ideas that the SLN can use?

You may have slept through your physics classes, but have you ever been anywhere near something resembling logic? Or rhetoric?

Without building any SD(P). Of course a similar thing could be used by the small ships too. Although with fewer carriers. CLAC CLOC CPOD...Could even use BC(P) sized carriers which would be or could be as fast as an Agamemnon, unlike a full sized CLAC.

And what is the SLN going to load on those carriers? All those LAC classes they do not have? Or the frigates they haven't built in centuries?