When did Honor become the MVP?

Unarguably, she had arrived for certain when she became a martyr who rose from the dead, it just doesn't get any better than that. Kudos Annachie.

cthia wrote:Honor becomes MVP

tlb wrote:The very latest it would be is the return from the dead in Echoes of Honor; perhaps the earliest is The Short Victorious War. I thought it might be Honor Among Enemies when she wins over Klaus Hauptman, after he gets her back on active duty with the help of the Liberals and Conservatives (who hoped she would die out there). But there is a thought expressed early in HAE that it might really be is during Flag in Exile:

More than that, she'd actually saved the system a second time early last year. Whatever the House of Lords might think, the newsfaxes' accounts of the Fourth Battle of Yeltsin had made her almost as much a hero to the Star Kingdom's population as she was on Grayson itself. If the Cromarty Government ever felt confident enough of its majority in the Lords to try bringing her back into Manticoran uniform, Hauptman felt certain the attempt would succeed.

So that is my final guess.

cthia wrote:Excellent post! I can see why you choose to rest your defense.

One more support for this is from chapter 8 of Honor Among Enemies (as I noted a earlier post) where we have the first report of the nickname "the Salamander".

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Honor becomes MVP

The very latest it would be is the return from the dead in Echoes of Honor; perhaps the earliest is The Short Victorious War. I thought it might be Honor Among Enemies when she wins over Klaus Hauptman, after he gets her back on active duty with the help of the Liberals and Conservatives (who hoped she would die out there). But there is a thought expressed early in HAE that it might really be is during Flag in Exile:

More than that, she'd actually saved the system a second time early last year. Whatever the House of Lords might think, the newsfaxes' accounts of the Fourth Battle of Yeltsin had made her almost as much a hero to the Star Kingdom's population as she was on Grayson itself. If the Cromarty Government ever felt confident enough of its majority in the Lords to try bringing her back into Manticoran uniform, Hauptman felt certain the attempt would succeed.

So that is my final guess.

****** *

I've got a personal question for Honor if I can ever get past her armsmen, but I'll ask all of you. We know the Hauptmans didn't hurt Honor's career in the least bit after she won them over. And I'm sure we all agree the Hauptman's must have done a lot for her, even if only behind the scenes. Can anyone give any concrete examples? I can only specifically recall Stacey buying out a miscreant news column, but nothing else about the news column. Knowing someone with the financial hammer the Hauptman's wield is like knowing Thor, but when did they ever throw the hammer for her? Seriously, I thought the Hauptmans were going to come out swinging at some point against Pavel Young.

cthia wrote:

tlb wrote:Honor becomes MVP

The very latest it would be is the return from the dead in Echoes of Honor; perhaps the earliest is The Short Victorious War. I thought it might be Honor Among Enemies when she wins over Klaus Hauptman, after he gets her back on active duty with the help of the Liberals and Conservatives (who hoped she would die out there). But there is a thought expressed early in HAE that it might really be is during Flag in Exile:

More than that, she'd actually saved the system a second time early last year. Whatever the House of Lords might think, the newsfaxes' accounts of the Fourth Battle of Yeltsin had made her almost as much a hero to the Star Kingdom's population as she was on Grayson itself. If the Cromarty Government ever felt confident enough of its majority in the Lords to try bringing her back into Manticoran uniform, Hauptman felt certain the attempt would succeed.

So that is my final guess.

****** *

I've got a personal question for Honor if I can ever get past her armsmen, but I'll ask all of you. We know the Hauptmans didn't hurt Honor's career in the least bit after she won them over. And I'm sure we all agree the Hauptman's must have done a lot for her, even if only behind the scenes. Can anyone give any concrete examples? I can only specifically recall Stacey buying out a miscreant news column, but nothing else about the news column. Knowing someone with the financial hammer the Hauptman's wield is like knowing Thor, but when did they ever throw the hammer for her? Seriously, I thought the Hauptmans were going to come out swinging at some point against Pavel Young.[/quote]

I recall that the Hauptmans partnered with her on some of her projects on Grayson later on.

ldwechsler wrote:I recall that the Hauptmans partnered with her on some of her projects on Grayson later on.

And lent her legal staff on occasion.

My question is who does Honor trust to vote her proxy in the Lords? Prior to Operation Thunderbolt I'd have assumed it would be Willy Alexander, but the PM doesn't routinely vote in the Lords so she'd have to pick someone else. Hamish is a possibility but he's busy enough that he's probably looking for a proxy as well. Michelle Henke's mother, perhaps?

cthia wrote:Honor becomes MVP

tlb wrote:The very latest it would be is the return from the dead in Echoes of Honor; perhaps the earliest is The Short Victorious War. I thought it might be Honor Among Enemies when she wins over Klaus Hauptman, after he gets her back on active duty with the help of the Liberals and Conservatives (who hoped she would die out there). But there is a thought expressed early in HAE that it might really be is during Flag in Exile:

More than that, she'd actually saved the system a second time early last year. Whatever the House of Lords might think, the newsfaxes' accounts of the Fourth Battle of Yeltsin had made her almost as much a hero to the Star Kingdom's population as she was on Grayson itself. If the Cromarty Government ever felt confident enough of its majority in the Lords to try bringing her back into Manticoran uniform, Hauptman felt certain the attempt would succeed.

So that is my final guess.

cthia wrote:I've got a personal question for Honor if I can ever get past her armsmen, but I'll ask all of you. We know the Hauptmans didn't hurt Honor's career in the least bit after she won them over. And I'm sure we all agree the Hauptman's must have done a lot for her, even if only behind the scenes. Can anyone give any concrete examples? I can only specifically recall Stacey buying out a miscreant news column, but nothing else about the news column. Knowing someone with the financial hammer the Hauptman's wield is like knowing Thor, but when did they ever throw the hammer for her? Seriously, I thought the Hauptmans were going to come out swinging at some point against Pavel Young.

ldwechsler wrote:I recall that the Hauptmans partnered with her on some of her projects on Grayson later on.

But wasn't Pavel Young dead by the time Hauptman changed his position on Honor in Honor Among Enemies?

cthia wrote:Honor becomes MVP

tlb wrote:The very latest it would be is the return from the dead in Echoes of Honor; perhaps the earliest is The Short Victorious War. I thought it might be Honor Among Enemies when she wins over Klaus Hauptman, after he gets her back on active duty with the help of the Liberals and Conservatives (who hoped she would die out there). But there is a thought expressed early in HAE that it might really be is during Flag in Exile:

More than that, she'd actually saved the system a second time early last year. Whatever the House of Lords might think, the newsfaxes' accounts of the Fourth Battle of Yeltsin had made her almost as much a hero to the Star Kingdom's population as she was on Grayson itself. If the Cromarty Government ever felt confident enough of its majority in the Lords to try bringing her back into Manticoran uniform, Hauptman felt certain the attempt would succeed.

So that is my final guess.

cthia wrote:I've got a personal question for Honor if I can ever get past her armsmen, but I'll ask all of you. We know the Hauptmans didn't hurt Honor's career in the least bit after she won them over. And I'm sure we all agree the Hauptman's must have done a lot for her, even if only behind the scenes. Can anyone give any concrete examples? I can only specifically recall Stacey buying out a miscreant news column, but nothing else about the news column. Knowing someone with the financial hammer the Hauptman's wield is like knowing Thor, but when did they ever throw the hammer for her? Seriously, I thought the Hauptmans were going to come out swinging at some point against Pavel Young.

ldwechsler wrote:I recall that the Hauptmans partnered with her on some of her projects on Grayson later on.

tlb wrote:But wasn't Pavel Young dead by the time Hauptman changed his position on Honor in Honor Among Enemies?

I'm not sure, now that you mention it. I oftentimes forget where I am in the timeline during a reread, so it is quite possible. I'll look into it at my earliest convenience. Thanks.

And it would make sense because I don't recall the Hauptmans even being a footnote during that mess. OTOH, if she hadn't yet won Klaus over, seems he would have tried to make sure she burned during that whole ordeal of a clown court.

tlb wrote:But wasn't Pavel Young dead by the time Hauptman changed his position on Honor in Honor Among Enemies?

cthia wrote:I'm not sure, now that you mention it. I oftentimes forget where I am in the timeline during a reread, so it is quite possible. I'll look into it at my earliest convenience. Thanks.

And it would make sense because I don't recall the Hauptmans even being a footnote during that mess. OTOH, if she hadn't yet won Klaus over, seems he would have tried to make sure she burned during that whole ordeal of a clown court.

Honor was not on trial, so there was nothing for Hauptman to do during Field of Dishonor (the fourth book) and after her performance on the dueling ground with Summervale he was glad that he did not make any move against her. Then she shot Young and was forced out of the House of Lords. So the next book, Flag in Exile, has her tending to her steading in Grayson.

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:But wasn't Pavel Young dead by the time Hauptman changed his position on Honor in Honor Among Enemies?

cthia wrote:I'm not sure, now that you mention it. I oftentimes forget where I am in the timeline during a reread, so it is quite possible. I'll look into it at my earliest convenience. Thanks.

And it would make sense because I don't recall the Hauptmans even being a footnote during that mess. OTOH, if she hadn't yet won Klaus over, seems he would have tried to make sure she burned during that whole ordeal of a clown court.

Honor was not on trial, so there was nothing for Hauptman to do during Field of Dishonor (the fourth book) and after her performance on the dueling ground with Summervale he was glad that he did not make any move against her. Then she shot Young and was forced out of the House of Lords. So the next book, Flag in Exile, has her tending to her steading in Grayson.

And she saves both Hauptmans in Honor Among Enemies and Klaus is a "man who pays his debts." Later on we find out about her close friendship with Stacy and, I think I recall that if both Hauptmans die, she takes control of their fortune.

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:But wasn't Pavel Young dead by the time Hauptman changed his position on Honor in Honor Among Enemies?

cthia wrote:I'm not sure, now that you mention it. I oftentimes forget where I am in the timeline during a reread, so it is quite possible. I'll look into it at my earliest convenience. Thanks.

And it would make sense because I don't recall the Hauptmans even being a footnote during that mess. OTOH, if she hadn't yet won Klaus over, seems he would have tried to make sure she burned during that whole ordeal of a clown court.

Honor was not on trial, so there was nothing for Hauptman to do during Field of Dishonor (the fourth book) and after her performance on the dueling ground with Summervale he was glad that he did not make any move against her. Then she shot Young and was forced out of the House of Lords. So the next book, Flag in Exile, has her tending to her steading in Grayson.

ldwechsler wrote:And she saves both Hauptmans in Honor Among Enemies and Klaus is a "man who pays his debts." Later on we find out about her close friendship with Stacy and, I think I recall that if both Hauptmans die, she takes control of their fortune.

Honor wasn't on trial, true. But there was nothing stopping Klaus from throwing his weight behind Young's exoneration. He also could have pushed for Harrington's guilt for not passing command, or at least muddied the waters enough to cleanly spring Young. There was never any danger of Young being put to death. In fact, he almost got off scott-free had it not been for Kuzak screaming at Hemphill. (I'll always imagine that's how that went down.)* Sonja wasn't quite over the scalding she got at the WDB, maybe?

At any rate, Klaus was financially supporting the Navy and the Navy being able to continue its war efforts against the Peeps was everyone's worry. If Klaus had threatened to withdraw his financial support atop everything else threatening the Navy's war efforts - Young may have escaped without any punishment.

*"Sonja! What the hell is wrong with you!? Honor is one of ours! Young is scum!"