MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"

KJakker wrote:It has been a very long time since I have logged in here however given the topic I thought people might be interested this video from a YouTube channel I watch, "Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur", which recently had an episode talking about the concepts behind evacuating a planet. Link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW89tggdf6I

I really appreciate this! The timing is perfect. I've only had time for several minutes of it thus far. It comes on the heels of my niece saying to me "There is going to be a need for a lot of infrastructure and ships to receive and process people at the destination planets."

" "

cthia wrote:

KJakker wrote:It has been a very long time since I have logged in here however given the topic I thought people might be interested this video from a YouTube channel I watch, "Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur", which recently had an episode talking about the concepts behind evacuating a planet. Link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW89tggdf6I

I really appreciate this! The timing is perfect. I've only had time for several minutes of it thus far. It comes on the heels of my niece saying to me "There is going to be a need for a lot of infrastructure and ships to receive and process people at the destination planets."

" "

Watch the whole video, it points out all the reasons why you don't necessarily need to evacuate a planet as well as all the other problems involved in trying to evacuate a planet.

In Honorverse terms, the Manticorans have already faced a early threat to Manticore that struck without warning in the plague years, and they did not evacuate Manticore.

Much later the Manticorans faced a threat that simultaneously threatened all three of their planets, with approximately 40-50 years of warning time. Read the novella "I Will Build My House of Steel" in House of Steel: The Honorverse Companion by David Weber for details of how they prepared to meet the threat. And for details of how they successfully dealt with the threat, read the mainline Honorverse series, the Shadows series, the Crown of Slaves series, and the anthologies.

cthia wrote:

KJakker wrote:It has been a very long time since I have logged in here however given the topic I thought people might be interested this video from a YouTube channel I watch, "Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur", which recently had an episode talking about the concepts behind evacuating a planet. Link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW89tggdf6I

I really appreciate this! The timing is perfect. I've only had time for several minutes of it thus far. It comes on the heels of my niece saying to me "There is going to be a need for a lot of infrastructure and ships to receive and process people at the destination planets."

" "

Vince wrote:Watch the whole video, it points out all the reasons why you don't necessarily need to evacuate a planet as well as all the other problems involved in trying to evacuate a planet.

In Honorverse terms, the Manticorans have already faced a early threat to Manticore that struck without warning in the plague years, and they did not evacuate Manticore.

Much later the Manticorans faced a threat that simultaneously threatened all three of their planets, with approximately 40-50 years of warning time. Read the novella "I Will Build My House of Steel" in House of Steel: The Honorverse Companion by David Weber for details of how they prepared to meet the threat. And for details of how they successfully dealt with the threat, read the mainline Honorverse series, the Shadows series, the Crown of Slaves series, and the anthologies.

Indeed.

Although it would be very remiss of me not to point out that the problem with several of my threads is that people have a hard time accepting the premise and moving on. It caused the Eridani Edict Violation thread to stutter before it finally caught fire and look at it now. It has become one of the most successful threads and it is quite interesting and entertaining. It is still trending.

I partly owe thanks to the success of that thread to Daryl, who first saw its potential and decided to bite. He is a real pioneer to see past the understeer.

I would really hate to see a potentially good conversation killed because of a lack of imagination or foresight. Also, I'm not too quick to believe the idea that in a target rich environment like the Honorverse with so many inhabited worlds that there hasn't already been a need to evacuate, or that there will never be a need. The synopsis that I allude to in this thread is that the MAlign will reappear sometime in the future. Badder. Meaner. Stealthier. And ready to kill, steal, maim and destroy, and have already shown that propensity in a few trial runs at unfortunate planets.

At any rate, the Course Description states the need to establish proper protocol and procedures, beforehand, for some possibly unseen, ill conceived event in the future. Just as a prepared precaution to have at the ready.

Listening to the video, you'll also hear that one of the criteria of evacuating a planet is having the means. Nearly all of the systems in the Honorverse bear space faring planets. It is ridiculous that a planet-wide evacuation procedure isn't already emplaced.

Schools, offices, government buildings and cities all have evacuation plans. In the Honorverse, it is shortsighted and irresponsible not to have one lying around for your planet.

Regardless of how many people will actually be saved, matters less than how many will die.

The survival rate can be increased significantly through preparation, foresight and responsibility. To be honest, I am appalled at the implication that since only millions might be saved that it isn't worth the effort. I doubt that a single one of those millions, after they survive their survivor's guilt, would agree with that sentiment. Nor do I think a single one who dies on the planet won't be thankful for the ones who actually got off the doomed rock.

It simply seems ironic that a system rich environment like the one existing in the MBS spends so much money on warships but doesn't have any emergency transports like the Redneks on hand to save souls.

One thing I do know. The guilt that would follow those in charge for their lack of preparation may kill them as well.

After all, Winston Churchill once said...

"He who fails to plan, plans to fail."

cthia wrote:After all, Winston Churchill once said...

"He who fails to plan, plans to fail."

The first problem I see in building what is necessary to lift the population of a planet (with little to nothing in the way of possessions) is how to pay for it.

Since all the real estate and everything built on/under/in orbit around it is going to go boom and thus the value will literally evaporate, externally, who would be willing to finance the cost of building the means to lift the population off the planet?

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:After all, Winston Churchill once said...

"He who fails to plan, plans to fail."

The first problem I see in building what is necessary to lift the population of a planet (with little to nothing in the way of possessions) is how to pay for it.

Since all the real estate and everything built on/under/in orbit around it is going to go boom and thus the value will literally evaporate, externally, who would be willing to finance the cost of building the means to lift the population off the planet?

The government of the people, for the people and by the people would be willing to pay for transports. A vehicle which would undoubtedly see many uses. In fact, they would have been used to evacuate the remaining citizens of Hades.

Also, the value of one's life should not depreciate in the face of losing one's possessions. Besides, more possessions can be bought with the bank accounts of Manticorans over the long life left on their prolonged odometer.

Another great thinker once said...

"Murphy don't hold no grudges, play no favorites and could care less whether one conceives of his plan beforehand or are prepared for imminent doom and destruction, when he could have been ready."

Oh! That great thinker was me!

cthia wrote:
The government of the people, for the people and by the people would be willing to pay for transports. A vehicle which would undoubtedly see many uses. In fact, they would have been used to evacuate the remaining citizens of Hades.

Also, the value of one's life should not depreciate in the face of losing one's possessions. Besides, more possessions can be bought with the bank accounts of Manticorans over the long life left on their prolonged odometer.

OK, we have the ability to evacuate the planet now - the engineering of Project Orion Arks was done in the 50s and 60s and is easily possible with 2018 technology. The only issue is you have to use 800 nukes to lift any Ark into orbit. And the bigger the Orion ship - the bigger the nukes needed. we could build thousands or millions of the ships right now as life boats, knowing we would torch the planet into a useless cinder as our last act of leaving it.

So, you are saying that we should, as a society, build Orion Arks just in case it all goes to pieces, and our governments have a obligation to do so, because we can?

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:
The government of the people, for the people and by the people would be willing to pay for transports. A vehicle which would undoubtedly see many uses. In fact, they would have been used to evacuate the remaining citizens of Hades.

Also, the value of one's life should not depreciate in the face of losing one's possessions. Besides, more possessions can be bought with the bank accounts of Manticorans over the long life left on their prolonged odometer.

OK, we have the ability to evacuate the planet now - the engineering of Project Orion Arks was done in the 50s and 60s and is easily possible with 2018 technology. The only issue is you have to use 800 nukes to lift any Ark into orbit. And the bigger the Orion ship - the bigger the nukes needed. we could build thousands or millions of the ships right now as life boats, knowing we would torch the planet into a useless cinder as our last act of leaving it.

So, you are saying that we should, as a society, build Orion Arks just in case it all goes to pieces, and our governments have a obligation to do so, because we can?

Not the same playing field.

1. Earth of 2018 A.D. is still internally divided. Wasting its resources fighting and killing itself.

2. In the Honorverse, many ships that could evacuate are already built, tested and paid for.

3. There are neighboring planets all set up and ready to host.

4. In the Honorverse, there are means to store this fleet in space where its shelf life would be infinitely preserved away from the elements and man's intransigence of war.

5. The cost of doing so in the Honorverse would be insignificant against its bottom line. Heck, many could have been built during High Ridge's shot to the navy.

6. In the Honorverse, the designs are proven.

7. In the Honorverse, visions and imaginations aren't as jaded and limited.

8. As I already stated, I'm not too convinced that the Honorverse hadn't already seen the need to prepare. Obviously 20th century man has at least seen the light as well.

9. The Honorverse is already a space-faring species.

10. Man's will to survive is innate. Hard coded. It is what causes him to instinctively reach out to grab ahold of something while falling. And to prepare for that day.

People want to live so badly that some of those who can afford it are investing into cryogenics. That doesn't sound like a good representative sample of a human mindset to let cost defray a chance to live.

The Honorverse Life Insurance policies could have a portion of its dividends going directly into that fund. That would be a real "Life Insurance" policy payable to the bearer for a change.

The Honorverse Life Insurance policies could have a portion of its dividends going directly into that fund. That would be a real "Life Insurance" policy payable to the bearer for a change.

And the ones that could afford it that didn't bother to set one up because it is their choice, you don't have to worry about the space they will occupy. Of course, if there is room, they should be allowed to transit as well.