Upcoming surplus of junior officers

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:

Ships dont necessarily NEED Midshipman, if you have 1,000 graduates you can have 10,000 positions in the fleet you need to fill out only 1,000. Just because a ship had room for snoties does not mean they have to have snoties.

This is true, but the maximum each ship class can handle is relevant to the discussion of class size vs slots available after OB.

What is to stop a ship from having more midshipmen than it has slots for? If there are 8 slots but 15 midshipmen needing a position what is to stop the navy from putting 15 midshipmen on board? As long as they split them up so that one officer is not overloaded looking after them then so be it... And if there is that much of a shortage of positions you can easily double up, for every position there are 2 midshipmen, they can hot bunk if that is the limiting factor, or sleep on a cot.

Weird Harold wrote:
Larger ships have larger crews, larger departments, can handle more trainees, Midshipmen or enlisted OJT students.

However many Middies a crew can train, the Middies need bunks as much as they "need ships." That's why the bunks available on "Snottie Row" is a limiting factor.

Note that we haven't seen any Snottie Row that was full, let alone had multiple compartments. But then we haven't seen any snottie cruises organized since OB. With the ship/bunk losses from BOM and OB, they may need to fill every Snottie Row Bunk they can find, regardless of normal practice -- even if it is only eight bunks, regardless of ship size.

I would argue this point. The last thing that is limiting the # of snoties is the sleeping arrangement. They can hot bunk, put cots anywhere and every where there is free space or get a sleeping bag and a pillow and sleep on the floor. They are in the military after all.

Sigs wrote:Or maybe every ship has a number of slots, but not every slot has to be filled. If an SD has 10 slots that does not mean it can't function if it gets only 3 midshipmen.

They are supernumeraries. They are not needed and typically require the crew to spend time and effort shepherding them around. They are not qualified to do anything. They have not been through the engineering school so if they work in engineering they can’t be standing a watch by the,selves. This is pretty much the case for any technical task unless they had prior service. The RMN spends literally years training people to do the technical jobs, they don’t just grab someone out of high school and say “you seem like a pretty bright kid, here’s a tool kit and a manual, go fix that impeller.”

They probably already have a plan to reduce the number of the officers core.

We know from the text that a good number of officers where recall to active service as well as many where convinced to stay on beyond their original term of service. Releasing this group from service would open up slots. Offer incentives for early retirement/early discharge to cut another chunk off the officer core.

At the same time wind down enrollment at the various services academies. Tighten up requirements to pass Midshipman cruise to stay in the Navy.

You will have a rough patch for a bit of time but nothing that militarizes have not had to deal with before after a war.

Sigs wrote:I would argue this point. The last thing that is limiting the # of snoties is the sleeping arrangement. They can hot bunk, put cots anywhere and every where there is free space or get a sleeping bag and a pillow and sleep on the floor. They are in the military after all.

"Bunk Space" in this context would include things like life support capacity, consumables storage, cubage/crewman, and a host of other factors I can't anticipate. Middie cruises are nominally 12 T-months long. That's a very long time to hot-bunk without tempers flaring even if the life support and food supplies could support that many extra bodies.


Honor packed in escapees to the bulkheads and used shuttles to augment the life-support in the ESN. She couldn't just "give them a pallet and a sandwich" and head for home.

pnakasone wrote:They probably already have a plan to reduce the number of the officers core.

We know from the text that a good number of officers where recall to active service as well as many where convinced to stay on beyond their original term of service. Releasing this group from service would open up slots. Offer incentives for early retirement/early discharge to cut another chunk off the officer core.

At the same time wind down enrollment at the various services academies. Tighten up requirements to pass Midshipman cruise to stay in the Navy.

You will have a rough patch for a bit of time but nothing that militarizes have not had to deal with before after a war.

They are in the middle of a war with the largest nation in existence which once it collapses will leave quite a mess. They are also at war with a nation that no-one actually knew existed. If there is anything they would do it would be to double or triple their training classes rather than cut them back. They need to incorporate Talbot and Silesia into the RMN because even if the League collapses there would still be quite a mess that the GA would need to clean up. So yeah I doubt they are worried about upwards mobility for their officers.

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:I would argue this point. The last thing that is limiting the # of snoties is the sleeping arrangement. They can hot bunk, put cots anywhere and every where there is free space or get a sleeping bag and a pillow and sleep on the floor. They are in the military after all.

"Bunk Space" in this context would include things like life support capacity, consumables storage, cubage/crewman, and a host of other factors I can't anticipate. Middie cruises are nominally 12 T-months long. That's a very long time to hot-bunk without tempers flaring even if the life support and food supplies could support that many extra bodies.


Honor packed in escapees to the bulkheads and used shuttles to augment the life-support in the ESN. She couldn't just "give them a pallet and a sandwich" and head for home.

I'm not talking about putting 75 Midshipment on a ship with a crew of 75 and pack them to the extreme. I am talking about doubling or tripling the snoties on a particular ship within reason. So the life support would not be strained. And lets be honest, this is a military organization we are talking about... they would sleep where they are told and they will keep their mouths shut and do their jobs. When I was in the army no one was worried about my temper flaring because I was sleeping on a cot in a tent at -40. The military has ways to make my life even more uncomfortable and unhappy if I were to whine and complain.This would be true especially after OB. You have to know what you are signing up for. You have to do whatever is needed for the good of the service. You are asking people to risk their lives and are then worried they might be a little pissed off if they have to hot bunk for a year...

Sigs wrote:When I was in the army no one was worried about my temper flaring because I was sleeping on a cot in a tent at -40.

Army experience -- or USAF experience in my case -- bears no resemblance to Navy experience; specifically submarine experience. If a submarine sailor cracks because of over-crowding or 'cabin fever' the result can be the loss of a ship or crew. Opening both doors on an airlock because you cracked and "need some fresh air" is a lot more serious than losing your temper out on bivouac.

Weird Harold wrote:Army experience -- or USAF experience in my case -- bears no resemblance to Navy experience; specifically submarine experience. If a submarine sailor cracks because of over-crowding or 'cabin fever' the result can be the loss of a ship or crew. Opening both doors on an airlock because you cracked and "need some fresh air" is a lot more serious than losing your temper out on bivouac.

Navy doesn’t usually issue people with hand grenades and 210 rounds of ammo for their machine gun....

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:Army experience -- or USAF experience in my case -- bears no resemblance to Navy experience; specifically submarine experience. If a submarine sailor cracks because of over-crowding or 'cabin fever' the result can be the loss of a ship or crew. Opening both doors on an airlock because you cracked and "need some fresh air" is a lot more serious than losing your temper out on bivouac.

Navy doesn’t usually issue people with hand grenades and 210 rounds of ammo for their machine gun....

Yep we got bigger guns.