GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions

Tell that to Dr. Ben Carson and his brother Curtis, an aeronautical engineer. Poor beginnings in Detroit, single and illiterate mother. Both brothers worked hard and found professional success. If one is sufficiently stubborn, one can succeed at quite a few endeavors.

The point is to attract those who have the determination to succeed regardless of possible disadvantages. Prep courses simply provide tools for the driven student. The individual students provide the characteristic that the service will shape.

He's pretty obsessed with credentials. Did they go to the right school, do they have a degree, etc. trying to argue with this doesn't work.

ldwechsler wrote:

PeterZ wrote:The point isn't to admit everyone into the service academies, it is to admit the best or most determined. The academies may hold spots open for an Alliance system's entrants, but those entrants have to be the best students available. The SEM applicants may have an inherent advantage, but so what? Anyone capable of overcoming that advantage by SEM applicants deserves a spot. I doubt it will ever come to the academies holding spots for SEM applicants, but would be a good problem to have.

We should remember that there are a lot of really smart people even on planets considered backward. The American Founding Fathers were in a "backwoods" country but we had a Franklin and a Jefferson and quite a few others with talent.

People can learn and bright ones can learn very fast. The key subjects involved would be science and math. Intensive coaching could help prepare students to compete.

Let us remember that Grayson was such a backwoods and its naval leaders turned out quite well. Should I mention Abigail Hearns?

To go back to an earlier argument. I was just re-reading Shadow of Victory and in Chapter 70, a captain reflects on the fact that the Solly software had to be tweaked because the computers would not believe the speed of incoming Manty missiles.

Also, that a top admiral only conducted tests under protest because it was clear that the information they had from people in the field had to be wrong. As I pointed out earlier,there are a lot of people who have vested interests and won't give them up easily.

I noted also that the Grand Alliance was already commerce raiding. They will find far fewer defenders of any value and will take down a real lot of the Solly fleet along the way. It will be tougher going after the Grand Alliance. They don't have the warp junctions so they'll move slower and there are far fewer planets to defend.

PeterZ wrote:Tell that to Dr. Ben Carson and his brother Curtis, an aeronautical engineer. Poor beginnings in Detroit, single and illiterate mother. Both brothers worked hard and found professional success. If one is sufficiently stubborn, one can succeed at quite a few endeavors.

The point is to attract those who have the determination to succeed regardless of possible disadvantages. Prep courses simply provide tools for the driven student. The individual students provide the characteristic that the service will shape.

Do you consider those two average students?

That may or may not be the point. But the practice at these universities is to only accept those students amongst those who are attracted that are deemed probable of excelling, not simply passing, the rigorous instruction. There are a limited amount of slots at these academies and universities. And in the RMNA to turn out exceptional students would be their mission statement to maintain their exceptional navy. Certainly to graduate instead of fail.

Manticore was in a fight for its life with a ravenous appetite for officers and failing any student would not have been what they would want to do. They certainly do not have the time to accept enrollment of students inadequately prepared and who most likely would fail. Would there be exceptions, certainly, but the RMN cannot afford to enroll or recruit from a pool of inadequately educated applicants. These type universities and academies are not in the habit of taking chances with less than stellar educations and performances. In fact, even students with stellar educations and performances are advised to go the extra mile and ramp up their transcripts with extracurricular activites, clubs, outside interest, etc., etc., and still may not be accepted. These universities and academies are in the habit of churning out the top percentiles and guaranteeing careers.

Dr. Ben Carson and his brother Curtis are exceptions who themselves most likely would not have been given a chance at many of the elite universities. I don't make the rules or the realities. I'm just the messenger.

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kzt wrote:He's pretty obsessed with credentials. Did they go to the right school, do they have a degree, etc. trying to argue with this doesn't work.

No kzt. These type universities are obsessed with credentials.

I'm only aware of it because I'm a graduate, of the real world.

They aren't average. However, did they work themselves to success or were they simply genius intelects? My take is a bit more the former with solid intellectual abilities.

The entire point is attracting the best of these systems and educating them, shaping them into the sort of naval personnel the GA can work with to survive the upcoming battle of survival. The entire thread discusses how the GA moves to prevent secessions. Shoring up the Verge and Former protectorates is part of that effort.

So it doesn't matter that the average or even the moderately good doesn't make it to Saganami Island. So long as the best have an opportunity even if some have to work harder than others, the program will be a success. Whatever advantages or disadvantages people have doesn't matter, so long as the competitive field demands the same standards for success for all participants.

cthia wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Tell that to Dr. Ben Carson and his brother Curtis, an aeronautical engineer. Poor beginnings in Detroit, single and illiterate mother. Both brothers worked hard and found professional success. If one is sufficiently stubborn, one can succeed at quite a few endeavors.

The point is to attract those who have the determination to succeed regardless of possible disadvantages. Prep courses simply provide tools for the driven student. The individual students provide the characteristic that the service will shape.

Do you consider those two average students?

That may or may not be the point. But the practice at these universities is to only accept those students amongst those who are attracted that are deemed probable of excelling, not simply passing, the rigorous instruction. There are a limited amount of slots at these academies and universities. And in the RMNA to turn out exceptional students would be their mission statement to maintain their exceptional navy. Certainly to graduate instead of fail.

Manticore was in a fight for its life with a ravenous appetite for officers and failing any student would not have been what they would want to do. They certainly do not have the time to accept enrollment of students inadequately prepared and who most likely would fail. Would there be exceptions, certainly, but the RMN cannot afford to enroll or recruit from a pool of inadequately educated applicants. These type universities and academies are not in the habit of taking chances with less than stellar educations and performances. In fact, even students with stellar educations and performances are advised to go the extra mile and ramp up their transcripts with extracurricular activites, clubs, outside interest, etc., etc., and still may not be accepted. These universities and academies are in the habit of churning out the top percentiles and guaranteeing careers.

Dr. Ben Carson and his brother Curtis are exceptions who themselves most likely would not have been given a chance at many of the elite universities. I don't make the rules or the realities. I'm just the messenger.

.

Hi Loren Pechtel,

C-fractional strikes are definitely another option, although a LAC ballistic strike at 0.5C would take almost 7 hours acceleration, and over 104 light minutes out, which could be easily detected and intercepted much closer, since the anchorage systems should have detectors extending out several light weeks, as opposed to the MacGregor system in AoV [chapter 39, pg 543 PB] which was quite a setup, and they came in from just one light day out and took over 2 days to do it, accelerating to .8C at only 450 G's for 16 hours to keep it stealthy.

Given those detectors, a workable approach might launch from not far outside the hyper limit, sweep through in powered stealth and be back aboard in less than 4 hours, an efficient use of time and assets.

However, using the RD wedges to rip the undefended SD's apart is brilliant!

That's really applying the KISS principle!

Such a 'sweep' might take less than an hour to launch and recover the RD's [from 4LM out]; time spent sending messages to the system capitol and back while still beyond the hyper limit, while still seeming to be at least a few hours from attack range.

Of course sand or gravel also work.

I'd consider releasing the sand/gravel from a distance, decelerating the RD's after lining up on the targets, letting the sand go first, using the RD wedges to clean up any missed SD's.

I suspect many manty officers would feel it poetic justice to use a variant of OB on the SL, although C-fractional strikes have long been a staple of RMN tactics like at least 2 or 3 centuries.

You're on a roll, so please keep the good ideas coming!

L

Loren Pechtel wrote:A simple way to destroy the reserve without using up a whole bunch of missiles:

C-frac LAC strike. They come in ballistic at something like half of lightspeed. They can use their grasers at very short range, it will make quite a mess of the ships.

They will be out of range of return graser fire in something like 10 seconds--can the defenders realize what's up and shoot in that time? In case of a surprise attack, most likely not. So long as they're not flying at a Sollie ship no missile can catch them.

However, how about a more appropriate response to a KEW strike?

Take some cruisers. Take some Mistletoe drones, remove the warheads and replace them with a bunch of sand. Think Oyster Bay against various Sollie military bases in space. The cruisers provide the boost, then release the drones that only use their engines as need be to line up, they are otherwise ballistic. KEW strike on the bases. From Oyster Bay we saw that you can't keep a wedge around such things, the strike will go home.

Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it.

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L

PeterZ wrote:Why not simply send in a drone to run its wedge through every ship in its path? Or or three drones working together will destroy all the SDs in the anchorage in less than 20 minutes.

I was envisioning the mothballed SDs orbiting a moon in multiple rings. One or two RDs could work through those rings easily enough.

Unless those bases orbited uninhabited planets, any relativistic sand would threaten civilians. Not sure what the impact of some amount of sand hitting the atmosphere at relativistic speeds and would be. I suspect not good at all.

lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it.

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L

PeterZ wrote:Why not simply send in a drone to run its wedge through every ship in its path? Or or three drones working together will destroy all the SDs in the anchorage in less than 20 minutes.

[quote="PeterZ"]I was envisioning the mothballed SDs orbiting a moon in multiple rings. One or two RDs could work through those rings easily enough.

Unless those bases orbited uninhabited planets, any relativistic sand would threaten civilians. Not sure what the impact of some amount of sand hitting the atmosphere at relativistic speeds and would be. I suspect not good at all.
[quote="lyonheart"]Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it.

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L


Tactics are tactics but it's probably easier to simply come into a system and destroy ever orbital platform. Starting from scratch is very tough. First, there's the matter of setting up your first platforms so you can build the rest.

For the Manties, they could hit the major shipbuilding planets and destroy all the orbital facilities. Come back a year and half later and destroy everything built. Not enough time to really build a major ship.

And the Sollie League government is so openly corrupt that finding out information should be easy. Bolthole could be done because the people involved in setting it up were few and really determined to keep a secret. That kind of secrecy would be tough when dealing with bureaucracy.