Mesa occupation

hanuman wrote:John, I think we've reached an impasse wrt most points, but I wish to return to point 4.

Chichinin is a member of Mesa's Board of Directors as well as, at most, the outermost layer of the MAlign, seeing as he has not been evacuated.

What we see in chapter 56 of 'Cauldron' cannot, in my opinion, be regarded as definite proof of the general attitude of the MAllign's outer layer, since that part of the chapter was entirely an internal reflection by Chichi in, and I rather doubt that he's ever met more than a fraction of those individuals. However, I'll grant that your argument is a possibility, maybe even a probability.

Brigade XO wrote:Starting the "prototype" system at Darius with the "slaves" not knowing that they are slaves and that the government that appears (to the "slave" population) run the planet is actually run from behind the curtin by the Alignment makes for some fun speculation.

It runs into a major snag when you try to impliment it on all the other human inhabited planets, systems and other things in the known universe. There is that "minor" problem of all the living people who know about things like freedom and other types of government and have not been fed the Darius program since birth.

The Alignment doesn't really care about the rest of the humans -now living or to be alive in the future- except as a base to create it's version of Utopia. Kill off billions on thousands of planets? No problem- in batches from 1 to 2,000,000,000 is all the same to them. Totaly destroying the enviorments of the same planet to do the killing, not so much.
For an ideal process, none of the now living would reproduce except as directed by the Alignment. Eventualy all the now living people will die off (those with Prolong will take a bit longer unless they are "helped along" but once the Alignment sucessfully inserts it's moral, ethical, political and military precepts into ALL of the planitary systems it will control, it will have the cooperation of the populations in moving forward to a position of "Of course we will have our children, fully crafted by the Population Bureau from the "appropriate genes with needed modifications presented to us as new infants straight from the artifical wombs"
How could it be otherwise?

The situation on Darius is just one more more-or-less semi-perminant piece of the plan. This provides a willing and trained workforce- who don't know they are slaves and don't have any concept of slavery- to produce the equipment, weapons, and provide the infrastructure to support the Star Lines in the manner they are deserve to be until the Alignment can take it's rightfull place as the owners and Gods of the Universe.

Could get really messy as the Alignment eventually starts cleansing the rest of Humanity since the Alignment needs the planets and, give the ability to grow the "proper" forms of humans to meet its needs, they don't really need Normals even to produce more people.

JohnRoth wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:Starting the "prototype" system at Darius with the "slaves" not knowing that they are slaves and that the government that appears (to the "slave" population) run the planet is actually run from behind the curtin by the Alignment makes for some fun speculation.

It runs into a major snag when you try to impliment it on all the other human inhabited planets, systems and other things in the known universe. There is that "minor" problem of all the living people who know about things like freedom and other types of government and have not been fed the Darius program since birth.

The Alignment doesn't really care about the rest of the humans -now living or to be alive in the future- except as a base to create it's version of Utopia. Kill off billions on thousands of planets? No problem- in batches from 1 to 2,000,000,000 is all the same to them. Totaly destroying the enviorments of the same planet to do the killing, not so much.
For an ideal process, none of the now living would reproduce except as directed by the Alignment. Eventualy all the now living people will die off (those with Prolong will take a bit longer unless they are "helped along" but once the Alignment sucessfully inserts it's moral, ethical, political and military precepts into ALL of the planitary systems it will control, it will have the cooperation of the populations in moving forward to a position of "Of course we will have our children, fully crafted by the Population Bureau from the "appropriate genes with needed modifications presented to us as new infants straight from the artifical wombs"
How could it be otherwise?

The situation on Darius is just one more more-or-less semi-perminant piece of the plan. This provides a willing and trained workforce- who don't know they are slaves and don't have any concept of slavery- to produce the equipment, weapons, and provide the infrastructure to support the Star Lines in the manner they are deserve to be until the Alignment can take it's rightfull place as the owners and Gods of the Universe.

Could get really messy as the Alignment eventually starts cleansing the rest of Humanity since the Alignment needs the planets and, give the ability to grow the "proper" forms of humans to meet its needs, they don't really need Normals even to produce more people.

I've seen this scenario many times in comments, and I'd like to know where it's stated, or even implied, that the plan is for it to play out this way in the actual text of the series.

Brigade XO wrote:Starting the "prototype" system at Darius with the "slaves" not knowing that they are slaves and that the government that appears (to the "slave" population) run the planet is actually run from behind the curtin by the Alignment makes for some fun speculation.

It runs into a major snag when you try to impliment it on all the other human inhabited planets, systems and other things in the known universe. There is that "minor" problem of all the living people who know about things like freedom and other types of government and have not been fed the Darius program since birth.

The Alignment doesn't really care about the rest of the humans -now living or to be alive in the future- except as a base to create it's version of Utopia. Kill off billions on thousands of planets? No problem- in batches from 1 to 2,000,000,000 is all the same to them. Totaly destroying the enviorments of the same planet to do the killing, not so much.
For an ideal process, none of the now living would reproduce except as directed by the Alignment. Eventualy all the now living people will die off (those with Prolong will take a bit longer unless they are "helped along" but once the Alignment sucessfully inserts it's moral, ethical, political and military precepts into ALL of the planitary systems it will control, it will have the cooperation of the populations in moving forward to a position of "Of course we will have our children, fully crafted by the Population Bureau from the "appropriate genes with needed modifications presented to us as new infants straight from the artifical wombs"
How could it be otherwise?

The situation on Darius is just one more more-or-less semi-perminant piece of the plan. This provides a willing and trained workforce- who don't know they are slaves and don't have any concept of slavery- to produce the equipment, weapons, and provide the infrastructure to support the Star Lines in the manner they are deserve to be until the Alignment can take it's rightfull place as the owners and Gods of the Universe.

Could get really messy as the Alignment eventually starts cleansing the rest of Humanity since the Alignment needs the planets and, give the ability to grow the "proper" forms of humans to meet its needs, they don't really need Normals even to produce more people.

JohnRoth wrote:I've seen this scenario many times in comments, and I'd like to know where it's stated, or even implied, that the plan is for it to play out this way in the actual text of the series.

Somtaaw wrote:You'd have to start re-reading alot of the books from around At All Costs and forwards, maybe a little before that, and really read into the MAlign council meetings to get the full sub text. I can't recall which of the briefings in particular they really start showing this "we dont have about casualties caused, we will drag the human race to perfection whether it wants to be improved or not" attitude.

on 2011-06-16 Duckk wrote:I think you're underestimating just how gradual the Alignment plans to introduce their eugenics program. Consider how prolong is considered (for lack of better term) a universal right, even though it has only existed for roughly a hundred years. So the Alignment is going to start with little things, like screening for genetic disorders and quiet little tweaks. Something no one would object to, and agree that it's good to have. The idea is to change galactic opinion away from Beowulf's idea that genetic tinkering is evil, to something more receptive. Gradual changes, over decades, even centuries, in galactic opinion. With the Alignment controlling the media, they can subtly shape the discussion (one might say propaganda) so that over time the Alignment's view is the universal one, all while slowly introducing more and more of their eugenics program.

kzt wrote:And they are supposed to do exactly what how given a population of billions scattered across the entire planet?

saber964 wrote:Why would the MOF need to wait for Jeremy X to show up they already have the CinC TMF GEN Thandi Palane and a loud shout away the de facto Crown Princess of Torch Helen Zilwiki at Mobius.

JohnRoth wrote:Jeremy X, on the other hand, is a native of Mesa, is a genetic slave (an entertainer line, to be specific), was the head of the Audubon Ballroom, and is known by reputation to just about everyone. He represents the rebellion among the slaves.