THE C R U S H E R

Jonathan_S wrote:[Tossing a bunch of recon drones to look for pods before you're unable to avoid combat comes to mind -- you'd loose a lot of your old-style drones; but a mass launch should get enough through to spring any surprises

Well, as that they didn't have ANY available recon drones in the entire manticore system during BoM, it's more likely that he didn't have any either.

As far as Pavel Young, Elvis Santino and Edward Janacek failing the ATC are concerned, I'm willing to meet the dissenters half way. Here is how I think it went down. But first to set it up...

My own actual course study once upon a time was Civil Engineering. At Uni, I could not receive a "D" in any course considered part of my actual major, e.g., I could receive a "D" in History or English because it isn't considered part of my course work and it isn't actually a failing grade, but I could not receive a "D" in courses like Material Science, Thermodynamics and Strength of Materials. Although a "D" is considered above board it is considered a failing grade in your course study. After all, you don't want anyone designing a building or a bridge who got a "D" in any of the above.

I suspect that that is what happened with our three resident idiots. They managed to get all "D"s in every phucking course. And that is where the fudging of the North Hollow files took place.

"It's a failing grade Dmitri."

"It's not really a failing grade. An "F" is failing."

"You can't have Ds in your course work!"

"I've still got the North Hollow files you know. If you really want an example of what failing is."

"Oh, alright." 'Those phucking files. If I ever get my hands...'

"What did you say?"

"Nothing Dmitri."

"I didn't think you did."

And that is how the Trinity of three incompetent idiots began.

.

cthia wrote:I suspect that that is what happened with our three resident idiots. They managed to get all "D"s in every phucking course. And that is where the fudging of the North Hollow files took place.

Or, alternatively, they achieved average grades in these courses just through their own work and ability. By the time we see them (Santino both long before and long after his run at ATC, similar for Young), they've developed bad habits or, in Young's case, had the first real test of character.

Point being, no training course can completely test all the qualities needed in a successful battlefield officer, and achieving a passing grade here just means that an officer is considered being not completely useless.

(But that obviously doesn't satisfy your desire to see the people you dislike being terrible through and through)

A "D" as a letter grade in your major course work averages out to incompetence.

Santino certainly got a "D" in Preparedness and System Defense.

Lord Skimper wrote:Isn't Samantha a memory singer?

She's a Memory Singer, but iinm, the bond was after graduation. Samantha never saw the campus.

Correction...

Harold Tschu...

He was a native of the planet Sphinx and was adopted by a treecat he named Samantha when he was in his Third form as a Midshipman at Saganami Island while on leave and vacationing in Djebel Hassa. He was 21 or 22 T-years old at the time. Around 1910 PD, he had reached the rank of Commander and served as chief of engineering aboard HMAMC Wayfarer, when Samantha fell in love with Nimitz, the treecat of Captain Honor Harrington.

So she did bond with him in time to take some courses, and Samantha was probably one of the brightest treecats.

Which also answers my own question of whether Fourth Form Tactics implies a Second and Third. I wonder why it isn't on the wiki syllabus as to who taught each?

cthia wrote:
Which also answers my own question of whether Fourth Form Tactics implies a Second and Third. I wonder why it isn't on the wiki syllabus as to who taught each?

You do realize the Wiki is just written by readers who have parsed details from the books or from David's pearls (or just made up some BS, as frequently is the case on the Wiki). No one official has dropped a syllabus or a list of teachers at any time, nor has there been a story covering Honor's time at the Academy, except in later reflection.

Anyway, I expect many academy teachers to be continually rotating back to fleet assignments, and vice versa. So I doubt there is a consistent facility list. In addition, as the Havenite Wars progressed, the length of the Academy term shortened from 4 years to less than 3 - so the actual courses, and what was taught, most likely changed From Honor's time to Helen Zilwicki II's time.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:
Which also answers my own question of whether Fourth Form Tactics implies a Second and Third. I wonder why it isn't on the wiki syllabus as to who taught each?

You do realize the Wiki is just written by readers who have parsed details from the books or from David's pearls (or just made up some BS, as frequently is the case on the Wiki). No one official has dropped a syllabus or a list of teachers at any time, nor has there been a story covering Honor's time at the Academy, except in later reflection.

Anyway, I expect many academy teachers to be continually rotating back to fleet assignments, and vice versa. So I doubt there is a consistent facility list. In addition, as the Havenite Wars progressed, the length of the Academy term shortened from 4 years to less than 3 - so the actual courses, and what was taught, most likely changed From Honor's time to Helen Zilwicki II's time.

Understood.

Though there can't be a discontinuity within a major course study. I am 100 % certain that First, Second and Third Form Tactics is a prerequisite for Fourth Form Tactics. Some subjects cannot be axed.

Which was an implied "Why hasn't the author - who is in fact the de facto professor - imparted the 'syllabus?'" It was really a rhetorical question. A point of interest.

Anyway, I expect many academy teachers to be continually rotating back to fleet assignments, and vice versa. So I doubt there is a consistent facility list.

Agreed.

Which accounts for the dreaded...

Instructor: TBA
Location: TBD

Not only that, even the teachers who are listed in either slot simply cannot be operating as singletons. There is no way the ravenous need of BuPers can be fed with a single instructor per course - as implied by the passage documenting that many students were fighting over the limited number of slots available for Honor's class. As is the case all over the U.S., on our own campuses. It has to be that way or the classes would be excessively large and undoubtedly held in a Roman Coliseum type setting. Good luck receiving anything bearing a semblance of an intimate one on one instruction there, as are the benefits of smaller classes.

In addition, as the Havenite Wars progressed, the length of the Academy term shortened from 4 years to less than 3 - so the actual courses, and what was taught, most likely changed From Honor's time to Helen Zilwicki II's time

Granted.

I commented on that upstream. What was likely eliminated were the "electives" and the general instruction associated with a well rounded education, like History, English and the like. It is the difference between a two year technical school and a four year University. College vs University. In a well rounded University setting you don't really begin courses in your major until your third year - pretty much, the first two years are spent bringing you up to speed in courses that you may or may not have been exposed to in High School, or exposed to well.

The School of Tactics was not touched, other than the normal incorporation of new material to reflect the changing environment, of course. I'll bet money on that. The emplaced School of Tactics is not only a winning recipe, it is also a prerequisite for protecting the orbitals, which is a prereq for protecting the planet, which is a prereq for protecting the Queen, which is a prereq for continued breathing.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:
Which also answers my own question of whether Fourth Form Tactics implies a Second and Third. I wonder why it isn't on the wiki syllabus as to who taught each?

You do realize the Wiki is just written by readers who have parsed details from the books or from David's pearls (or just made up some BS, as frequently is the case on the Wiki). No one official has dropped a syllabus or a list of teachers at any time, nor has there been a story covering Honor's time at the Academy, except in later reflection.

Anyway, I expect many academy teachers to be continually rotating back to fleet assignments, and vice versa. So I doubt there is a consistent facility list. In addition, as the Havenite Wars progressed, the length of the Academy term shortened from 4 years to less than 3 - so the actual courses, and what was taught, most likely changed From Honor's time to Helen Zilwicki II's time.

cthia wrote:Understood.

Though there can't be a discontinuity within a major course study. I am 100 % certain that First, Second and Third Form Tactics is a prerequisite for Fourth Form Tactics. Some subjects cannot be axed.

Which was an implied "Why hasn't the author - who is in fact the de facto professor - imparted the 'syllabus?'" It was really a rhetorical question. A point of interest.

Anyway, I expect many academy teachers to be continually rotating back to fleet assignments, and vice versa. So I doubt there is a consistent facility list.

Agreed.

Which accounts for the dreaded...

Instructor: TBA
Location: TBD

Not only that, even the teachers who are listed in either slot simply cannot be operating as singletons. There is no way the ravenous need of BuPers can be fed with a single instructor per course - as implied by the passage documenting that many students were fighting over the limited number of slots available for Honor's class.* As is the case all over the U.S., on our own campuses. It has to be that way or the classes would be excessively large and undoubtedly held in a Roman Coliseum type setting. Good luck receiving anything bearing a semblance of an intimate one on one instruction there, as are the benefits of smaller classes.

In addition, as the Havenite Wars progressed, the length of the Academy term shortened from 4 years to less than 3 - so the actual courses, and what was taught, most likely changed From Honor's time to Helen Zilwicki II's time

Granted.

I commented on that upstream. What was likely eliminated were the "electives" and the general instruction associated with a well rounded education, like History, English and the like. It is the difference between a two year technical school and a four year University. College vs University. In a well rounded University setting you don't really begin courses in your major until your third year - pretty much, the first two years are spent bringing you up to speed in courses that you may or may not have been exposed to in High School, or exposed to well.

The School of Tactics was not touched, other than the normal incorporation of new material to reflect the changing environment, of course. I'll bet money on that. The emplaced School of Tactics is not only a winning recipe, it is also a prerequisite for protecting the orbitals, which is a prereq for protecting the planet, which is a prereq for protecting the Queen, which is a prereq for continued breathing.

BEWARE RANT IN ROAD AHEAD



*In my day you had to camp out overnight for a limited number of slots, simply to stand in line in the gymnasium trying to get necessary classes to begin enrollment. Looooong looooong lines in the overcrowded and hot gymnasium where tempers are running hot and oftentimes flaring. DO NOT HIT ON THE GORGEOUS GIRL IN FRONT OF YOU. SHE IS ANGRIER THAN THE MENSTRUATING WICKED WITCH OF THE EAST, WEST, NORTH AND SOUTH! DO NOT EXIT THE LINE TO GET WATER TO QUENCH YOUR THIRST or to use the restroom. BUY THE HALF CONTAINER OF UNUSED HOT LIQUID FROM THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU FOR $20. Quick, before he drinks it.

Over an hour you stand in line, sometimes two, for your main course only to finally get there and find out you're in the wrong line. And you turn around and look at the line she is pointing to. There are no clear lines, just a mass of mingled people. You are toast. But you suck it up and get in line. There's no alternative, only to finally get your turn and the lady tell you. "She doesn't know what she is talking about. We keep telling them yatta yatta yatta. Go back and tell her...

"No! Bitch, I am about to go postal!"

"Okay, I'll go and get the card for you, under the circumstances."

"Umm, sorry, the slots are gone. Course closed!"

"ARRRRRGGH!"

"Now your entire day is shot, because scheduling is dependent on each class and you have to schedule the entire semester around that one main slot who's scheduled time may conflict with any other course you may acquire. You have to go back to your room and check the university catalog. First day wasted. Back to your room to map out a strategy of what courses you can now schedule from what is left and hope you don't have to kill someone tomorrow!

This is a very emotional subject for me. Quite emotional. Though the tears falling from my face this time are tears of anger. At the mention of this subject I feel like Honor when Michelle was asking her about "the incident" and Honor's fists tightened remembering certain things which intensified when Michelle finally said his name... Pavel.

In my day there were no computers computerizing the method of signing up for classes. It predated the Paperwork Reduction Act. Heck, today you can do it from your cell phone. Bip Bam Boom.



So when I came across that passage regarding students fighting for limited slots in Honor's class, it resonated on a personal and intimate level with me. Oftentimes, word gets around that you do not want to take certain professors. And everyone knows it, because his course still has most of his slots available even late into the registration period. Oftentimes some remaining even after registration period ends.

Would you want to be taught either form of tactics by a Santino clone?

Rant. Over. Apology tendered.


Anyone else have any toxic memories from a bygone era loooong looong gone, yet the emotional and possible physical scars yet remain?

Here's an Old Tilman as payment for evoking the toxic memory.

Also, from memory, between Honor's time as a first former and well lets say now the accadamy intake has gone up a lot.
There may have been only one tactics teacher in her day.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

The E wrote:

cthia wrote:I suspect that that is what happened with our three resident idiots. They managed to get all "D"s in every phucking course. And that is where the fudging of the North Hollow files took place.

Or, alternatively, they achieved average grades in these courses just through their own work and ability. By the time we see them (Santino both long before and long after his run at ATC, similar for Young), they've developed bad habits or, in Young's case, had the first real test of character.

Point being, no training course can completely test all the qualities needed in a successful battlefield officer, and achieving a passing grade here just means that an officer is considered being not completely useless.

(But that obviously doesn't satisfy your desire to see the people you dislike being terrible through and through)

As far as Santino is concerned, you could be right. Though I'm going to listen to my apprehensive conscious and wait for the next bus. IMHO, bad habits will cause Santino to procrastinate and put off preparing or bothering to spend time in his quarters doing the necessities of constantly viewing the objectives and having brainstorming sessions with his crew. Where he could have obtained lifesaving information from Andrea Jaruwalski. Bad habits may account for what landed him in that situation.

Bad habits would not cause him to do as he did when the schit hit the fan. Incompetence caused that disaster. I know it is being blamed on panic, but at the end of the day competence (if present) would have slotted in and taken the bull by the horns when the fear of death hangs in the air. The proverbial "Death has a way of focusing one's thoughts." There was simply nothing to focus in Santino's head.

Even if panic really did cause him temporary insanity, if competence would have been available to him in any measure, would have slotted in on the second opportunity, after disseminated to him by Andreea Jaruwalski. "You are absolutely right Andrea, we learned that in Third Form Tactics."

As per Young, give up on him. He can't even be graded on a curve. He was simply stupid, couldn't even wear his mess dress without tripping on it.

He chose to try and rape a Sphinxian with the Meyerdahl Beta Genetic modifications when his modifications were nil. He had to have been aware that she could have at least excelled in Chief Petty Officer MacDougal's unarmed combat course - which she did - if he was actually a part of the Academy and was aware of its courses. And we know that he didn't pass MacDougal's class, because he was afraid of his own shadow. And even if he didn't know that she was enhanced, then Tactics 101 teaches you to know your enemy. Underlines more incompetence AND stupidity.

Having the lover killed of the most dangerous officer in the navy? Well, I cannot attribute that to either stupidity or incompetence, but I can give a nod to insanity. But as a strategist, hell no. The first thing that should have slotted in his mind when he contemplated killing Honor's lover was... 'Duel at high noon.'

Young was probably too arrogant and stupid to peer into his own personnel file, which I'm sure was simply full of adoration and accolades.

In the The Perisher (video) Part 1 is information stating that one of the main things you are prepared and tested for is panic.

Which I still owe Annachie bigtime for. Wait, on second thought, we're even - remembering that tablecloth you cost me and my wife's ire.

.