Expressions of Manticoran wealth

I've got a couple of parallels myself. I started programming on a mainframe using cards and a Fortran compiler. I had trouble as the mainframe often burnt out a critical valve before my science program completed.
When my youngest son was 12 I took him up to my university, and remember the head of computers being condensending about his Commodore 64, as "You can only program them in Basic". Said son then demonstrated how he used machinecode.
I didn't make millions as an undergrad, but have done ok since, late starter.

Daryl wrote:I've got a couple of parallels myself. I started programming on a mainframe using cards and a Fortran compiler. I had trouble as the mainframe often burnt out a critical valve before my science program completed.
When my youngest son was 12 I took him up to my university, and remember the head of computers being condensending about his Commodore 64, as "You can only program them in Basic". Said son then demonstrated how he used machinecode.
I didn't make millions as an undergrad, but have done ok since, late starter.

I picked up BASIC, FORTH, and a couple of machine languages on the side. My degree is mechanical, except for one semester the electronics and programming were self study. The skill level for programming isn't anywhere near that high, my best aptitude is still in mechanical and general control systems. When I can understand how it should work, it is possible to visualize it. Actually, there doesn't seem to be any way to NOT think about engineering challenges. And I don't want to stop either

If anyone knows someone who can use it, I see a way to safely feed a steam engine boiler with biomass without the safety need to constantly watch it due to irregular feeding causing large variations in heat flow and pressure.

The financial income has never been high, but good planning kept us out of trouble once it was realized it was needed.

Encourage those who produce real value, discourage those who would leach on them - the basics of a good economy.

Daryl wrote:I've got a couple of parallels myself. I started programming on a mainframe using cards and a Fortran compiler. I had trouble as the mainframe often burnt out a critical valve before my science program completed.
When my youngest son was 12 I took him up to my university, and remember the head of computers being condensending about his Commodore 64, as "You can only program them in Basic". Said son then demonstrated how he used machinecode.
I didn't make millions as an undergrad, but have done ok since, late starter.

And by valves, our friend across the pond means vacuum tubes which the mainframes tended to blow. Those babies put off a lot of heat too.

Funny, when the mainframe went down because of a tube, there was always mixed emotions. Some students were thrilled because it meant an automatic extension on your project. And some were ill. Funny.

Yes, many people underestimated the utility of those personal computers back then. They didn't realize that ASSEMBLERS, DISASSEMBLERS and in some cases other languages was available for them. And even if a language wasn't available, all of the source files to compile it was readily available on many a BBS (Bulletin board systems -- the extent of the internet, Arpanet, of the day).

I used a compiled ASSEMBLER to extend the capabilities of Basic. Then I used the extended Basic to extend the capabilities of the ASSEMBLER. Together, I had a very powerful programming environment on my personal computer. That machine should have been confiscated. lol

I also had UNIX and COBOL running on my personal computer way back when!

I'd sure like to get my hands on an Honorverse minicomp - even a cheap Havenite brand. lol

cthia wrote:
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I'd sure like to get my hands on an Honorverse minicomp - even a cheap Havenite brand. lol

Ooh Micro computer even. But I doubt we could afford to pay for it with today's resources, unless something we have would be a collectible. And we would still need to program it.

DDHvi wrote:

cthia wrote:
snip

I'd sure like to get my hands on an Honorverse minicomp - even a cheap Havenite brand. lol

Ooh Micro computer even. But I doubt we could afford to pay for it with today's resources, unless something we have would be a collectible. And we would still need to program it.

An Honorverse microcomputer? My eyes are spinning like a kaleidoscope.

I'm pretty confident I could program it no problem. One look at the OS and "Hey, this is simply a version of Unix." One look at the supporting language and "Hey, this is just LISP!"

Lisp will never become outdated or outgrown. The surface of its true power is yet to be scratched. And its an itch just a-waitin' it.

cthia wrote:Lisp will never become outdated or outgrown. The surface of its true power is yet to be scratched. And its an itch just a-waitin' it.

It turns out that the in the Honorverse only two languages stood the test of time. One is basically Ada, the other is COBOL. Though for some reason all the keywords are in Russian.

Edit: I forgot, the most common operating system is called WOS. Not many people know it is formally called Windows3163RTSP23. The default display is simplified Chinese, but there is a simple 23 step process to change that that only requires 3 system reboots.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:Lisp will never become outdated or outgrown. The surface of its true power is yet to be scratched. And its an itch just a-waitin' it.

It turns out that the in the Honorverse only two languages stood the test of time. One is basically Ada, the other is COBOL. Though for some reason all the keywords are in Russian.

Edit: I forgot, the most common operating system is called WOS. Not many people know it is formally called Windows3163RTSP23. The default display is simplified Chinese, but there is a simple 23 step process to change that that only requires 3 system reboots.

Windows development/programming is currently supervised and directed by Solly bureaucrats trained to PRH educational standards.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:Lisp will never become outdated or outgrown. The surface of its true power is yet to be scratched. And its an itch just a-waitin' it.

It turns out that the in the Honorverse only two languages stood the test of time. One is basically Ada, the other is COBOL. Though for some reason all the keywords are in Russian.

Edit: I forgot, the most common operating system is called WOS. Not many people know it is formally called Windows3163RTSP23. The default display is simplified Chinese, but there is a simple 23 step process to change that that only requires 3 system reboots.

COBOL will survive into the Honorverse. Unless it melts down transferring the many monies in the Final Wars. It will win by attrition. It has no competition. No one wants to replace or lose over 200 billion lines of code. Some of which I wrote. Besides, it is not a programming language, it's a bean counter. It is so easy to grasp even KOKO the gorilla can learn it. She spoke enough English. It was designed with simplicity in mind so that even a monkey could learn it. And many code monkeys have. COBOL is considered to be a job security language. If you only wish to learn one language and don't mind being bored from day to day doing the repetitiously mundane, and still want to remain highly employable - then COBOL. You only need to know English. lol

ADA is a very good choice if you have to choose just one language and your interests will never take you into the realm of AI (Artificial Intelligence). For AI, ADA just isn't there yet. The ADA consortium is well aware of that fact, and they have made significant inroads. The latter specifications have closed the gap on legacy AI languages like LISP. However, LISP was built in the beginning -- from the ground up -- specifically with AI in mind. LISP was initially developed exclusively for AI. It's expression and power happened to make it a perfect generic language as well -- an all hats paradigm. Languages that have to evolve to do what LISP does will always be lacking that certain "something."

Parameter passing restrictions in ADA hinders it from achieving LISP like AI prominence. ADA is a great language. Very robust with an "all under one roof" design. (Which I like.) But its parameter passing restrictions is a game changer for me and for the the realm of AI. LISPS recursive function (that is Lisp's recursive functions - not the imposter recursive functions of other languages) of being able to pass off programs as data is much too powerful and impossible to overlook. "Programs" and "data" are the same to LISP -- WHAT A CONCEPT!!! I'm in love! It cannot be mimicked in any other un-lisp-like language.

What does programs that write programs invoke in your head? If you said "machine learning," go to the head of the class. You are correct, true machine learning -- AI. In AI comparisons, LISP walks away unscathed everytime. There are certain things possible in LISP that you just can't do in ADA or any other language -- not yet anyways. The future will keep an eye on it.

Many languages borrow from LISP's data structure. Even ADA. LISPs list processing is brilliant. The only reason everyone doesn't use LISP is because they are frightened of the parenthesis. They don't get it. They can't see the simplicity for the parenthesis. (A programming version of forest for the trees) If you ever truly get LISP. You truly got something... simply powerful! LISP is so powerful that even early on in its conception, specialized machines had to be built to try and harness its power. LISP MACHINES! From the onset, Lisp was more powerful than any hardware. It has been waiting for hardware to catch up. The heavy use of frightening parenthesis and the fact that specialized machines were needed to utilize its power somewhat is directly responsible for its lack of popularity. But modern computers reveal a secret about LISP for the adventurous types -- something I discovered as a little kid. DAMN THIS LANGUAGE IS POWERFUL --Pinky!

LISP hasn't changed since its conception in 1958. It hasn't had too. It was built on the atom -- the lambda. You don't change the lambda -- lambda changes you.

Other "more modern" languages have tried to garner some of the "power" market of Lisp by designing into its language what they call OOP (Object Oriented Programming). With Lisp's inherent ability to pass programs - anything actually - as data. OOP is as Lisp does.

OOP is no OBJECT to Lisp.

Lisp is like "OOP? Is that what you call it? I've been doing that since I was a little infant." OOPS!

With the expressive and absolute power of Lisp, Pinky becomes the brain!

There is a planet in the Honorverse that converted to lisp, and generated a device to summon all the resources needed so that they could use LISP for everything. They also have an errorfree complete set of computer programs. Alas, the resource summoner in order to make the code work had to summon all the parentheses...in the universe...so that all the places you think you see a parenthesis in David's writing you are actually seeing a { or }.