Remaining holes in SLN intel

I have never been clear on why/how Technodyne was able to divert the BCs to Monica. Not the whole falsification of destruction/scrapping part, that was clear. It's why they didn't get sold off as-is to a League world or someplace outside the League that was looking to create or build up their little (or not so little) SDF.
These were being retired from SLN. They had older tech and weapons. Wasn't this classic in the mode of operation of SL, selling "obsolete" or at least no longer 1st line equipment to make money?
That Technodyne could refit and upgrade them really isn't a surprise. It is more interesting that they didn't go through some convoluted chanel to FF- after somebody made a lot of money doing the refits of -we persume Battle Fleet excort/screen- ships being replaced by new models. I say BF because FF would use them to absolute scrap if they had them. Why not, what is out in the Verge and beyond to challange a 1 generation old SLN BC? Some desperate tinplate dictator with a couple of 100yr old former SLN DDs (or nock-off copies) is not going to be a problem.

I suppose this is just one more example of the Alignment using the League against itself. Scrapping the ships and the much lower inflow of credits for "scrap prices" leaves the paper trail desired (which is none that is useful) and nobody is looking for their piece of the cut on the sales commissions. Eventually this would have come out- someobody would have noticed Monica suddenly became flush with BCs, particularly after they had "successfully" worked through the plan by which they ended up ambushing and crushing the Lynx Terminus picket and called for FF support.
But then, the Alighnment only truly wanted to stall Manticore and the havoc created by booting Monica's mercentary capability and the crisis the ultimate exposure of the BC's getting diverted [What do you mean we "lost" a squadron of funtional and now upgraded/refitted BC---and where is my part of the fee?] would case in the form of damage to the bureaucracy.

It may be that units above a certain tonnage are subject to export restrictions. One would not want some uppity neobarb getting their hands on battlecruisers to resist Frontier Fleet, no matter how old. I could see decommissioned destroyers and light cruisers being freely available from the League. Heavier units would probably be restricted to polities given favored nation status, such as pre-war Erewhon.

Potato wrote:It may be that units above a certain tonnage are subject to export restrictions. One would not want some uppity neobarb getting their hands on battlecruisers to resist Frontier Fleet, no matter how old. I could see decommissioned destroyers and light cruisers being freely available from the League. Heavier units would probably be restricted to polities given favored nation status, such as pre-war Erewhon.

Sort of like the US in the 80s - F-5 Freedom Fighters for all!!!

- If we like you/are currying favor with you - F16s and F-15s are available at reduced pricing - just speak to your local State department representative for low financing offers.

Offer good through the end of the current administration. Other conditions may apply. Use discount code CONTRA for current offer. Soviet Bloc countries are ineligible for discounts and deals.

.

The Indefatigable class is implied to be only slightly newer than the RMN's Redoubtable class.
It is somewhat bigger and has more missle tubes, but is still limited in terms of point defense. This also indicates that it probably has very thick but obsolete face-mirrored armor. In short it has to tank laserheads (which implies a massive repair fee) and is even then not properly armored for it, which becomes apparent when improved cruiser weight laserheads are applied.
Also the Idefatigable was a Frontier Fleet design, and members of the class were scant at best in the reserve, so they likely have systems that have too much time on their clocks, but are nonetheless full of classified hardware, which might even include the armor itself, given that there might be available wavelengths it does not guard against, which taking it apart would tell you. Any SDF that can afford a BC is probably going to want something more recent, and no foreign government, no matter how trusted, is going to receive one at a reasonable price, after the required classifed gear is removed and replaced.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think that it was Technodyne who was dealing with the Peeps under the table during the first round of their war with Manticore. Textev to that effect is from that Tech who was on that station at Monica helping with those bcs that Mesa hoped to turn loose on Manticore to drive Manticore out of the quadrant and seize the Lynx terminus. Technodyne was hoping for a first hand look at Manty hardware.

It's never stated. Given that their are something like 1500 SL worlds that could in theory supply more advanced weapons than what 1905 Haven had I think assuming Technodyne was involved is a pretty big assumption, and it's a much bigger assumption that it was only Technodyne.

Read that exchange between the Monican admiral Hegedustic (sp) and Levakonic the Technodyne rep when Terekov shows up with his squadron. That pretty firmly states that Tehnodyne had been sharing tech with Haven, partially in exchange for reports on their encounters with the Manties.

As for who else might have been doing the same thing, I have no comment one way or the other...but we know that Technodyne of Yildun was.

Don

-

As an aside:

cthia wrote:cthia wrote:Am I mistaken that the overall size of SL and Manticoran SD's are about the same, ...

Weird Harold wrote:Yes, you are mistaken.

A Scientist-class or Vega-class SLN SD is about the same size as the RMN's pre-war DN. Current RMN SD(P)s run about 30% bigger than SLN SDs.

This prompted me to investigate the difference between the sizes of aircraft carriers of the world. Some nations must react towards the U.S. carriers as the SLN reacts to Manty BCs and SDs.

Gerald R Ford Class, US
A full load displacement of 100,000t makes the Gerald R Ford Class the world’s biggest aircraft carrier. The first carrier in class, USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78), was delivered to the US Navy in May 2017, while initial operational capability is anticipated to be achieved in 2020.

The CVN-78 features a 78m-wide flight deck equipped with electromagnetic aircraft launch system and advanced arresting gear. The carrier has the capacity to carry more than 75 aircraft and can accommodate 4,539 personnel including ship’s company, air wing and other support staff.

Gerald R Ford is powered by two A1B nuclear reactors offering 250% more electrical capacity than the Nimitz Class. The weaponry includes RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles, Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAMs) and Phalanx close-in weapon system (CIWS).

Nimitz Class, US
Nimitz Class, with a full load displacement of 97,000t, is the world’s second largest aircraft carrier. The first carrier in the class was deployed in May 1975, while the tenth and last ship, USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77), was commissioned in January 2009. Each carrier of the Nimitz Class is designed to operate for about 50 years, requiring just one mid-life overhaul.

The 332.8m-long supercarrier features a 4.5-acre flight deck capable of carrying more than 60 aircraft. Each ship towers 20 stories above the water and can accommodate 3,000 to 3,200 ship’s company, 1,500 air wing and 500 other crew.

Nimitz Class is powered by two nuclear reactors providing a maximum speed of more than 30kt. The Sea Sparrow missiles, Phalanx close-in weapon system (CIWS) and Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAMs) mounted aboard the vessel defend against potential threats. The ships in Nimitz Class will be replaced by the Gerald R. Ford Class (CVN 78) next generation aircraft carriers from 2020.

Queen Elizabeth Class, UK
Displacing 65,000t, the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers are the biggest warships ever built for the Royal Navy. The first vessel in class, HMS Queen Elizabeth, began her sea trials in June 2017 and is scheduled to enter service in 2020, while the second carrier, HMS Prince of Wales, is scheduled to be operational by 2023.

The vessels in Queen Elizabeth class are three times larger than the Invincible Class aircraft carriers and can support the embarkation of up to 40 rotary and fixed wing aircraft. Latest technology and automated systems aboard the vessel enable operations with a streamlined crew of 679.

Each vessel in the class is armed with a Phalanx CIWS, 30mm guns and mini-guns for self-defence against asymmetric threats. The aircraft carrier is powered by two Rolls-Royce MT30 gas turbines and four diesel generator sets providing a total installed power of 109MWe. The propulsion system will enable the vessel to sail at a maximum speed of 25kt.

Admiral Kuznetsov, Russian Federation
The Admiral Kuznetsov is the only operational aircraft carrier in the Russian Navy. Built by Nikolayev South shipyard, Kuznetsov ranks as the fourth largest aircraft carrier. It has a full load displacement of 58,500t.

The spacious 14,700m² flight deck of the Admiral Kuznetsov can accommodate Su-33, MiG-29K and Su-25UTG/UBP STOVL fighters, as well as Ka-27S, Ka-27LD32 and Ka-27PLO helicopters. The ship can accommodate 1,960 ship’s company, 626 air group and 40 flag staff.

The Russian aircraft carrier is propelled by a steam turbine propulsion system, providing a maximum speed of 32kt. The weaponry is composed of AK-630 AA guns, CADS-N-1 Kashtan CIWS, P-700 Granit anti-ship cruise missile and RBU-12000 UDAV-1 ASW rocket launchers.

Liaoning, China
Liaoning (16) is the only aircraft carrier in service with People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) of China. Initially developed as part of the Admiral Kuznetsov Class for the Soviet Union, Liaoning was earlier known by the names Riga and Varyag.

Hong Kong-based Chong Lot Travel Agency bought Liaoning at an auction in 1998 with the idea of converting it into a floating casino but never completed the conversion. The uncompleted ship was transferred to the Ukraine after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It was later acquired by China and refitted in Dalian Shipyard, to serve as an aircraft carrier for the PLAN. Liaoning was finally commissioned into service in September 2012.

The aircraft carrier is armed with Type 1030 CIWS, HQ-10 missiles and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) rocket launchers. The vessel displacing more than 58,000t (full load) is powered by steam turbine propulsion. Its flight deck can house about 50 aircraft, including fixed wing planes and helicopters.


INS Vikramaditya, India
INS Vikramaditya, with a displacement of 44,500t, is the biggest warship in service with the Indian Navy. Commissioned into service in November 2013, it is a modified Kiev-class aircraft carrier acquired from Russia.

The warship measures 284m-long and 60m-wide. The short take-off, but assisted recovery (STOBAR) flight deck can carry more than 30 aircraft including a mix of MiG 29K/Sea Harrier, Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters. The carrier is armed with anti-ship missiles, air-to-air missiles, guided bombs and rockets.

The propulsion system of INS Vikramaditya integrates eight turbo-pressurised boilers and four geared steam turbines generating a total output power of 180,000shp. The six turbo alternators and six diesel alternators aboard the vessel generate a total power of 18MW.

Charles de Gaulle (R91), France
The Charles de Gaulle (R91) aircraft carrier, the first French nuclear-powered surface ship, is the largest warship in Western Europe. It is also the only nuclear-powered carrier in service outside of the US Navy.

The French aircraft carrier underwent a six-month refit, which was concluded at Toulon naval base in July 2013. It can support the operations of 40 fixed wing aircraft and helicopters including Rafale M, Super Étendard, E-2C Hawkeye, SA365 Dauphin, EC725 Caracal and AS532 Cougar.

The vessel with a full load displacement of 42,000t carries 1,350 ship’s company and 600 air wing. Its power plant comprises of two K15 pressurised water reactors and provides a speed of 27kt.

São Paulo (A12), Brazil
São Paulo (A12) is the eighth biggest aircraft carrier, weighing more than 32,000t at full load. It is a Clemenceau-Class aircraft carrier currently operated by the Brazilian Navy. Originally commissioned by French Navy in 1963 as Foch (R99), the carrier was sold to Brazil in 2000.

The São Paulo can complement 1,920 crew, including 1,338 ship’s company and 582 Air Group crew. Its flight deck can accommodate 39 aircraft including fighters, fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters.

The armament aboard the ship includes SACP Crotale EDIR systems, Simbad launchers and naval guns for protection against surface and aerial threats. The six boilers generating 126,000shp make São Paulo one of the most powerful conventional aircraft carriers in operation. The propulsion system of the vessel provides a maximum speed of 32kt.

Cavour (550), Italy
The Cavour (550) with a full load displacement of 30,000t is the world’s ninth largest aircraft carrier. The Italian aircraft carrier (CVH) serves as the flagship of the Italian Navy (Marina Militare).

The Cavour features a 232.6m x 34.5m flight deck, which can accommodate fixed-wing aircraft such as AV-8B Harrier and JSF as well as EH101, AB212, NH 90 and SH3D helicopters. The vessel can complement 1,292 crew, including troops.

The armament includes short range defence systems, guns and decoy launchers defending against a variety of threats. The power plant integrating four 22MW AVIO/GE LM2500 Gas Turbines provides a maximum sustained speed of 29kt.

INS Viraat, India
INS Viraat (R22), the tenth largest aircraft carrier in the world, is a Centaur-Class aircraft carrier operated by the Indian Navy. It is also the oldest carrier, serving as the flagship of the Indian Navy. It was originally commissioned into the Royal Navy as HMS Hermes in 1959 and sold to India in 1986.

INS Viraat has a full load displacement of 28,700t and carries up to 30 fixed and rotary wing aircraft, such as Sea Harrier, Westland Sea King, HAL Chetak and HAL Dhruv. It complements a crew of 1,350, including 43 officers.

The Bofors AA guns and Barak surface-to-air missile (SAM) launchers mounted on the Viraat aircraft carrier protect the ship from aerial and surface attacks. The steam turbine propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 28kt.

cthia wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:The tech transfers to the PRH weren't from the SLN and of necessity were kept hidden from the SLN -- because the SLN would have had to enforce the embargo on Solarian Tech to any belligerent. (an embargo that would be to the SLN's benefit since it should have prevented the situation that eventually developed anyway.)

Some of what was sold to Haven was tech the SLN rejected, but banned sale of. Things like the missiles used in Operation Hassan.

The system defense pods Technodyne provided Monica were another SLN reject.

Thanks Harold.

Who sold it to them and are the Mandarins aware of it?

So the sentiment becomes "The neobarbs are so technologically backwards, that even our rejected tech is like Christmas in July to them."

It is worth remembering that at least some of the hardware the SLN rejected wasn't "not good enough" but "not a function we think we need". That includes the stealth missiles used to assassinate Cromarty and try for Elizabeth and Benjamin (the SLN didn't reject them for being bad, but because it had no use for assassination weapons - if it wants someone dead, it kicks in the door and shoots them in the face).

But at least some of the hardware was probably rejected for being "not good enough" (of course, bribery being bribery, who knows how good it really was).

cthia wrote:As an aside:

cthia wrote:cthia wrote:Am I mistaken that the overall size of SL and Manticoran SD's are about the same, ...

Weird Harold wrote:Yes, you are mistaken.

A Scientist-class or Vega-class SLN SD is about the same size as the RMN's pre-war DN. Current RMN SD(P)s run about 30% bigger than SLN SDs.

This prompted me to investigate the difference between the sizes of aircraft carriers of the world. Some nations must react towards the U.S. carriers as the SLN reacts to Manty BCs and SDs.

Gerald R Ford Class, US
A full load displacement of 100,000t makes the Gerald R Ford Class the world’s biggest aircraft carrier. The first carrier in class, USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78), was delivered to the US Navy in May 2017, while initial operational capability is anticipated to be achieved in 2020.

The CVN-78 features a 78m-wide flight deck equipped with electromagnetic aircraft launch system and advanced arresting gear. The carrier has the capacity to carry more than 75 aircraft and can accommodate 4,539 personnel including ship’s company, air wing and other support staff.

Gerald R Ford is powered by two A1B nuclear reactors offering 250% more electrical capacity than the Nimitz Class. The weaponry includes RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles, Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAMs) and Phalanx close-in weapon system (CIWS).

Nimitz Class, US
Nimitz Class, with a full load displacement of 97,000t, is the world’s second largest aircraft carrier. The first carrier in the class was deployed in May 1975, while the tenth and last ship, USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77), was commissioned in January 2009. Each carrier of the Nimitz Class is designed to operate for about 50 years, requiring just one mid-life overhaul.

The 332.8m-long supercarrier features a 4.5-acre flight deck capable of carrying more than 60 aircraft. Each ship towers 20 stories above the water and can accommodate 3,000 to 3,200 ship’s company, 1,500 air wing and 500 other crew.

Nimitz Class is powered by two nuclear reactors providing a maximum speed of more than 30kt. The Sea Sparrow missiles, Phalanx close-in weapon system (CIWS) and Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAMs) mounted aboard the vessel defend against potential threats. The ships in Nimitz Class will be replaced by the Gerald R. Ford Class (CVN 78) next generation aircraft carriers from 2020.

Queen Elizabeth Class, UK
Displacing 65,000t, the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers are the biggest warships ever built for the Royal Navy. The first vessel in class, HMS Queen Elizabeth, began her sea trials in June 2017 and is scheduled to enter service in 2020, while the second carrier, HMS Prince of Wales, is scheduled to be operational by 2023.

The vessels in Queen Elizabeth class are three times larger than the Invincible Class aircraft carriers and can support the embarkation of up to 40 rotary and fixed wing aircraft. Latest technology and automated systems aboard the vessel enable operations with a streamlined crew of 679.

Each vessel in the class is armed with a Phalanx CIWS, 30mm guns and mini-guns for self-defence against asymmetric threats. The aircraft carrier is powered by two Rolls-Royce MT30 gas turbines and four diesel generator sets providing a total installed power of 109MWe. The propulsion system will enable the vessel to sail at a maximum speed of 25kt.

Admiral Kuznetsov, Russian Federation
The Admiral Kuznetsov is the only operational aircraft carrier in the Russian Navy. Built by Nikolayev South shipyard, Kuznetsov ranks as the fourth largest aircraft carrier. It has a full load displacement of 58,500t.

The spacious 14,700m² flight deck of the Admiral Kuznetsov can accommodate Su-33, MiG-29K and Su-25UTG/UBP STOVL fighters, as well as Ka-27S, Ka-27LD32 and Ka-27PLO helicopters. The ship can accommodate 1,960 ship’s company, 626 air group and 40 flag staff.

The Russian aircraft carrier is propelled by a steam turbine propulsion system, providing a maximum speed of 32kt. The weaponry is composed of AK-630 AA guns, CADS-N-1 Kashtan CIWS, P-700 Granit anti-ship cruise missile and RBU-12000 UDAV-1 ASW rocket launchers.

Liaoning, China
Liaoning (16) is the only aircraft carrier in service with People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) of China. Initially developed as part of the Admiral Kuznetsov Class for the Soviet Union, Liaoning was earlier known by the names Riga and Varyag.

Hong Kong-based Chong Lot Travel Agency bought Liaoning at an auction in 1998 with the idea of converting it into a floating casino but never completed the conversion. The uncompleted ship was transferred to the Ukraine after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It was later acquired by China and refitted in Dalian Shipyard, to serve as an aircraft carrier for the PLAN. Liaoning was finally commissioned into service in September 2012.

The aircraft carrier is armed with Type 1030 CIWS, HQ-10 missiles and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) rocket launchers. The vessel displacing more than 58,000t (full load) is powered by steam turbine propulsion. Its flight deck can house about 50 aircraft, including fixed wing planes and helicopters.


INS Vikramaditya, India
INS Vikramaditya, with a displacement of 44,500t, is the biggest warship in service with the Indian Navy. Commissioned into service in November 2013, it is a modified Kiev-class aircraft carrier acquired from Russia.

The warship measures 284m-long and 60m-wide. The short take-off, but assisted recovery (STOBAR) flight deck can carry more than 30 aircraft including a mix of MiG 29K/Sea Harrier, Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters. The carrier is armed with anti-ship missiles, air-to-air missiles, guided bombs and rockets.

The propulsion system of INS Vikramaditya integrates eight turbo-pressurised boilers and four geared steam turbines generating a total output power of 180,000shp. The six turbo alternators and six diesel alternators aboard the vessel generate a total power of 18MW.

Charles de Gaulle (R91), France
The Charles de Gaulle (R91) aircraft carrier, the first French nuclear-powered surface ship, is the largest warship in Western Europe. It is also the only nuclear-powered carrier in service outside of the US Navy.

The French aircraft carrier underwent a six-month refit, which was concluded at Toulon naval base in July 2013. It can support the operations of 40 fixed wing aircraft and helicopters including Rafale M, Super Étendard, E-2C Hawkeye, SA365 Dauphin, EC725 Caracal and AS532 Cougar.

The vessel with a full load displacement of 42,000t carries 1,350 ship’s company and 600 air wing. Its power plant comprises of two K15 pressurised water reactors and provides a speed of 27kt.

São Paulo (A12), Brazil
São Paulo (A12) is the eighth biggest aircraft carrier, weighing more than 32,000t at full load. It is a Clemenceau-Class aircraft carrier currently operated by the Brazilian Navy. Originally commissioned by French Navy in 1963 as Foch (R99), the carrier was sold to Brazil in 2000.

The São Paulo can complement 1,920 crew, including 1,338 ship’s company and 582 Air Group crew. Its flight deck can accommodate 39 aircraft including fighters, fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters.

The armament aboard the ship includes SACP Crotale EDIR systems, Simbad launchers and naval guns for protection against surface and aerial threats. The six boilers generating 126,000shp make São Paulo one of the most powerful conventional aircraft carriers in operation. The propulsion system of the vessel provides a maximum speed of 32kt.

Cavour (550), Italy
The Cavour (550) with a full load displacement of 30,000t is the world’s ninth largest aircraft carrier. The Italian aircraft carrier (CVH) serves as the flagship of the Italian Navy (Marina Militare).

The Cavour features a 232.6m x 34.5m flight deck, which can accommodate fixed-wing aircraft such as AV-8B Harrier and JSF as well as EH101, AB212, NH 90 and SH3D helicopters. The vessel can complement 1,292 crew, including troops.

The armament includes short range defence systems, guns and decoy launchers defending against a variety of threats. The power plant integrating four 22MW AVIO/GE LM2500 Gas Turbines provides a maximum sustained speed of 29kt.

INS Viraat, India
INS Viraat (R22), the tenth largest aircraft carrier in the world, is a Centaur-Class aircraft carrier operated by the Indian Navy. It is also the oldest carrier, serving as the flagship of the Indian Navy. It was originally commissioned into the Royal Navy as HMS Hermes in 1959 and sold to India in 1986.

INS Viraat has a full load displacement of 28,700t and carries up to 30 fixed and rotary wing aircraft, such as Sea Harrier, Westland Sea King, HAL Chetak and HAL Dhruv. It complements a crew of 1,350, including 43 officers.

The Bofors AA guns and Barak surface-to-air missile (SAM) launchers mounted on the Viraat aircraft carrier protect the ship from aerial and surface attacks. The steam turbine propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 28kt.

And for those who might not now it's probably interesting to contrast those aircraft carriers with the size with the USN's helicopter carrying amphibious assult ships of the
America-class amphibious assault ship
The America-class has a full load displacement of 45,693 tons, placing it ahead of all but the top 5 carrier classes on this list. The first was commissioned into service in 2014.

The warship measures 257 m long and 32 m wide and can carry can carry about 20 AV-8Bs or F-35Bs, though normally carries mostly helicopters. For self-defense it carries two Rolling Airframe Missile launchers, two Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile launchers, and two Phalanx CIWS. Its 70,000 bhp gas turbines and 5,000 bhp diesel generators give it a top speed of 20 knots.

Wasp-class amphibious assault ship
The Wasp-class has a full load displacement of 41,150 tons, placing it ahead of all but the top 7 carrier classes on this list. The first was commissioned into service in 1989.

The warship measures 257 m long and 31.8 m wide and normally carriers 6 AV-8Bs or F-35Bs, 4 AH-1W/Z Super Cobra/Viper attack helicopters, 12 MV-22B Osprey assault support tiltrotors, 4 CH-53E Super Stallion heavy-lift helicopters, and 3–4 UH-1Y Venom utility helicopters. For self-defense it carries two Rolling Airframe Missile launchers, two Sea Sparrow Missile launchers, two Phalanx CIWS, and three 25 mm Mk 38 chain guns (the 1st 4 carrying an extra Phalanx and chain gun than this). Its 70,000 bhp gas turbines give it a top speed of 22 knots.


(See also the 27,000 ton JSDF Izumo-class Helicoptor Destroyer)

Eagleeye wrote:

cthia wrote:
If the SLN had been paying attention to everything going on in Manticore's neck of the woods, then they may have seen that their edge was quickly dissipating. If they had decided to jump on the nail, and hammer the problem before it got out of hand, at what point could they have rolled over the Haven sector?

I'm thinking right before the development of Apollo and the Ghost Rider bag of tricks.

I think, Operation Buttercup was the tipping point - with 2nd Hancock as the only warning shot that something totally new and dangerous was ready to arise its ugly head. Buttercup defines the point, where the first generation of any of the Manty new toys (Ghostrider, CLACs with the new LACs and MDMs - including the SD(P)s as the vessels to send them out) first worked together smoothly. 2nd Hancock on the other hand didn't only introduce the Shrikes, but new missiles with extended range, too. (Can't remember if that were already multidrive missiles, that HMS Minotaur fired at that time - or "only" extended drive missiles)

HMS Minotaur fired the 1st generation (with plasma capacitors, not the later micro fusion reactor) 3 stage MDMs.

depends on what you mean. I think just taking out Haven or Manticore would have been very painful but doable with both sides fighting each other. Just taking on Haven would be daring at best with the size of the RHN.

Manticore, on paper, would have been a softer target. But there was the pesky little detail of "Plucky Little Manticore" consistently kicking the Havenite Bully's butt to consider.

But there was no reason for the SLN to be concerned with "two neobarbs in the back of the beyond hurling sticks and stones at each other." I can't see an inconceivable reason to bend the Defence Clause into a pretzel to attack either Haven or Manticore.

Certainly by the start of the Second Haven War, it was too late to take either. The rearmament of the RMN in anticipation of Operation Buttercup was too late to take on Manticore, but Haven might, maybe, have been doable.