Remaining holes in SLN intel

n7axw wrote:I think that it was Technodyne who was dealing with the Peeps under the table during the first round of their war with Manticore. Textev to that effect is from that Tech who was on that station at Monica helping with those bcs that Mesa hoped to turn loose on Manticore to drive Manticore out of the quadrant and seize the Lynx terminus. Technodyne was hoping for a first hand look at Manty hardware.

It's never stated. Given that their are something like 1500 SL worlds that could in theory supply more advanced weapons than what 1905 Haven had I think assuming Technodyne was involved is a pretty big assumption, and it's a much bigger assumption that it was only Technodyne.

cthia wrote:
If the SLN had been paying attention to everything going on in Manticore's neck of the woods, then they may have seen that their edge was quickly dissipating. If they had decided to jump on the nail, and hammer the problem before it got out of hand, at what point could they have rolled over the Haven sector?

I'm thinking right before the development of Apollo and the Ghost Rider bag of tricks.

I think, Operation Buttercup was the tipping point - with 2nd Hancock as the only warning shot that something totally new and dangerous was ready to arise its ugly head. Buttercup defines the point, where the first generation of any of the Manty new toys (Ghostrider, CLACs with the new LACs and MDMs - including the SD(P)s as the vessels to send them out) first worked together smoothly. 2nd Hancock on the other hand didn't only introduce the Shrikes, but new missiles with extended range, too. (Can't remember if that were already multidrive missiles, that HMS Minotaur fired at that time - or "only" extended drive missiles)

The whole Technodyne-ships at Monica thing isn't finished. The witch hunt is on, political and economic blood is flowing in the halls of the Navy and varioius bureaucracies and blame is still being attempted to be placed on enough (and high enough) figures to satisfy the political bloodlust and deflect it (and blame) from all sorts of people who were involved.
It is still shaking the military-industrial complex if you will.
The thing is, as the readers, we see the bloody hand of the Alignment in this and the vast majority of the SL and other parties don't. Or, at least those who suspect that the accusation of the GA might have some basis are pointedly not suggesting that it is. It's one more big political and corruption scandal and there will be blood in the water for years.
So, no, none of the Mandarins probably actualy know who was the people show organized the Monica ship sale & upgrade and those who do are not talking- and the people who shuffled the paper are not the ones who thought it up nor implimented it.

Brigade XO wrote:The whole Technodyne-ships at Monica thing isn't finished. The witch hunt is on, political and economic blood is flowing in the halls of the Navy and varioius bureaucracies and blame is still being attempted to be placed on enough (and high enough) figures to satisfy the political bloodlust and deflect it (and blame) from all sorts of people who were involved.
It is still shaking the military-industrial complex if you will.
The thing is, as the readers, we see the bloody hand of the Alignment in this and the vast majority of the SL and other parties don't. Or, at least those who suspect that the accusation of the GA might have some basis are pointedly not suggesting that it is. It's one more big political and corruption scandal and there will be blood in the water for years.
So, no, none of the Mandarins probably actualy know who was the people show organized the Monica ship sale & upgrade and those who do are not talking- and the people who shuffled the paper are not the ones who thought it up nor implimented it.

This may be one of the points that the counter-intelligence types use to convince the Mandarins that they've been maneuvered by MAlign. Rajampat probably would have worked to cover it. Kingsford doesn't have to.

As I've noted before, a useful tactic for the Mandarins would be to accept they've been maneuvered, announce it, and run a witch hunt against MAlign. It won't stop the crumbling of the League but it might help them keep their jobs...or retire with a few crumbs of honor.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Who sold it to them and are the Mandarins aware of it?

Probably NOT Technodyne, but every arms supplier and wannabe arms supplier is a possibility.

(NOT TIY because they are complaining in textev about their inability to get any real data on Haven Sector tech.)

The Mandarins are either unaware or paid to "look the other way." They wouldn't tell the SLN in either case. Textev suggests that they are uninformed rather than on the take.

cthia wrote:So the sentiment becomes "The neobarbs are so technologically backwards, that even our rejected tech is like Christmas in July to them."

As far as the SLN is concerned, the embargo works exactly like the embargo says it works; As an organization, they know nothing. Individual SLN officers might be making a credit or six by not noticing any tech smuggling that might be passing through their sector, but they wouldn't be passing information up the command chain on whatever they weren't noticing.

Thanks again Harold. I was under the erroneous impression that all arms dealers aren't ship manufacturers. I thought that Technodyne only delivered ordnance.

It does raise questions, again, as to how much tech is already floating around in the League that is good enough to challenge the mighty Manticore if someone would simply take notice and pen a contract for them to start the press.

cthia wrote:Thanks again Harold. I was under the erroneous impression that all arms dealers aren't ship manufacturers. I thought that Technodyne only delivered ordnance.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Technodyne of Yildun is one of the SLN's primary ship builders -- that's where they got the BCs they spread about so casually; they were "trade-ins" on newer cruisers for FF. Not all arms dealers are shipbuilders and not all of the technology smugglers dealing with the PRH were even "arms dealers" per se; high-tech machine tools would be even more valuable than a few "smart-bombs."

cthia wrote:It does raise questions, again, as to how much tech is already floating around in the League that is good enough to challenge the mighty Manticore if someone would simply take notice and pen a contract for them to start the press.

I don't believe there is any tech "that is good enough to challenge the mighty Manticore" off the shelf. The League's general tech level was better than the Haven Sector twenty years ago, but the reverse is true by 1920PD or so. Military tech especially lags behind even if not as far behind as SLN tech.

Technodyne seems to be on the cutting edge of Solarian military R&D and they are several generations of tech behind Manticore a/o 1920 PD or so. I doubt that there is anyone in the League who is much more advanced than Technodyne.

cthia wrote:Oh my doggy biscuits. Ra - jam - pet is dead.

Joat42 wrote:

ART, chapter 27, excerpt wrote:"And Rajani still hasn’t managed to get Imogene Tsang to Old Chicago where we could ask her exactly what her orders in Beowulf were, either, has he?" Quartermain observed. She glanced at Kolokoltsov from the corner of one eye. "She was a hell of a lot more confrontational than she was supposed to be. I can’t help wondering if maybe her instructions—and Filareta’s—might not have included a couple of clauses we didn’t know about."

At that point they only have the written report, Tsang never got questioned in person and after that everything kind of spun of out control so they never got back to her.

So, have you re-read the book yet so you can get your facts straight?

cthia wrote:Gees! I'm aware of that.

Rajampet was sitting on her.

Rajampet blew his brains out.

Rajampet isn't sitting anymore.

Rajampet is laying down.

Do you have to be dependent upon the author for everything? If Rajampet is dead to us, he's dead to the author. And he's dead to Tsang. Tsang knows her way back home.

I might as well be a dentist, with all of the teeth I pull.

So you assume that the Mandarins already has questioned Tsang even though it hasn't happened in the books. That meeting would be somewhat important to the plot, wouldn't you agree?

From what we know, no such meeting has occurred. There is not one shred of evidence for it. All indications from ART is that both Rajampet and Tsang made themselves scarce. I doubt very much that Tsang would feel inclined to alter that situation after Rajampet ate a pulser dart since the Mandarins whole focus would then be on her instead of Rajampet.

That moment has passed since the Mandarins have already decided how to handle Beowulf and the SEM.

You have consistently made statements as if they where facts that either doesn't correspond with known textev for various reasons or that are unsupported assumptions. The only source of information we have IS from the author and if you want to assume things and extrapolate you better make sure you present it as such and you better be prepared for getting corrected when those assumptions has no factual basis, are based on misunderstandings or how you feel what emotions fictional characters should have based on little or no evidence.

cthia wrote:Oh my doggy biscuits. Ra - jam - pet is dead.

Joat42 wrote:

ART, chapter 27, excerpt wrote:"And Rajani still hasn’t managed to get Imogene Tsang to Old Chicago where we could ask her exactly what her orders in Beowulf were, either, has he?" Quartermain observed. She glanced at Kolokoltsov from the corner of one eye. "She was a hell of a lot more confrontational than she was supposed to be. I can’t help wondering if maybe her instructions—and Filareta’s—might not have included a couple of clauses we didn’t know about."

At that point they only have the written report, Tsang never got questioned in person and after that everything kind of spun of out control so they never got back to her.

So, have you re-read the book yet so you can get your facts straight?

cthia wrote:Gees! I'm aware of that.

Rajampet was sitting on her.

Rajampet blew his brains out.

Rajampet isn't sitting anymore.

Rajampet is laying down.

Do you have to be dependent upon the author for everything? If Rajampet is dead to us, he's dead to the author. And he's dead to Tsang. Tsang knows her way back home.

I might as well be a dentist, with all of the teeth I pull.

Joat42 wrote:So you assume that the Mandarins already has questioned Tsang even though it hasn't happened in the books. That meeting would be somewhat important to the plot, wouldn't you agree?

From what we know, no such meeting has occurred. There is not one shred of evidence for it. All indications from ART is that both Rajampet and Tsang made themselves scarce. I doubt very much that Tsang would feel inclined to alter that situation after Rajampet ate a pulser dart since the Mandarins whole focus would then be on her instead of Rajampet.

That moment has passed since the Mandarins have already decided how to handle Beowulf and the SEM.

You have consistently made statements as if they where facts that either doesn't correspond with known textev for various reasons or that are unsupported assumptions. The only source of information we have IS from the author and if you want to assume things and extrapolate you better make sure you present it as such and you better be prepared for getting corrected when those assumptions has no factual basis, are based on misunderstandings or how you feel what emotions fictional characters should have based on little or no evidence.

I'll admit to assuming certain things. The bigotry of Solarians against Manticorans isn't one of them.

I am also assuming that the next book will cover Tsang's debriefing. It is the final book and it'd be a hell of a thread to leave dangling. Seeing as how even the both of us concur on its importance to plot. Besides, I'm hoping for the timeline to be advanced quite a bit beyond that. So yea, certain things I can imagine are going on, have gone on, will go on, behind the scenes, between the lines and off-camera. Guilty as charged.

Alas, I'm not above an apology, and after the final book comes out and I'm wrong, remind me and I'll apologize while the pages are still hot. I'm batting a thousand so far.

If I'm wrong, I'll still end the series batting .998.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks again Harold. I was under the erroneous impression that all arms dealers aren't ship manufacturers. I thought that Technodyne only delivered ordnance.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Technodyne of Yildun is one of the SLN's primary ship builders -- that's where they got the BCs they spread about so casually; they were "trade-ins" on newer cruisers for FF. Not all arms dealers are shipbuilders and not all of the technology smugglers dealing with the PRH were even "arms dealers" per se; high-tech machine tools would be even more valuable than a few "smart-bombs."

cthia wrote:It does raise questions, again, as to how much tech is already floating around in the League that is good enough to challenge the mighty Manticore if someone would simply take notice and pen a contract for them to start the press.

I don't believe there is any tech "that is good enough to challenge the mighty Manticore" off the shelf. The League's general tech level was better than the Haven Sector twenty years ago, but the reverse is true by 1920PD or so. Military tech especially lags behind even if not as far behind as SLN tech.

Technodyne seems to be on the cutting edge of Solarian military R&D and they are several generations of tech behind Manticore a/o 1920 PD or so. I doubt that there is anyone in the League who is much more advanced than Technodyne.

Per Technodyne, brain fart on my part. Thanks for helping me pass the gas.

It is simply that the League is so large and statistics would have it that many breakthroughs would place them in that sector of the galaxy, since there is so much more research, by comparison, going on there. I know it isn't about quantity, but quality. Still, the Solarian sector isn't the home of IQ challenged monkeys -- just one big ugly IQ challenged gorilla who kept skipping school. I would imagine that the gorilla doesn't define the other orangutans.