How many naval personnel is there available in Talbott.

Sigs wrote:Because SLN ships they at least might have experience with, dumping top of the line LAC's and Apollo Pods would require a tremendous investment of manpower by the RMN at a time when they can ill afford it.

Weird Harold wrote:You do realize that there is textev that LAC wings are already deploying to Talbott systems?

Storm From The Shadows
Chapter Seventeen
April 1921 PD wrote: "The main thing it would mean, Henri," Khumalo said, "is that the majority of the emergency war program construction will have time to come into service. And that, in turn, means the Admiralty's plans to beef up our naval presence here in the Quadrant could proceed without worrying about diversions to meet unanticipated needs on the main front. Which means Vice Admiral Gold Peak's new fleet's order of battle would come forward more or less as scheduled, and that we ought to see the first light attack craft squadrons being deployed within the next month or so."

"Really?" Krietzmann looked as if he were more than half afraid to believe it. He obviously didn't think Khumalo was lying to him. It was more as if he found it difficult to believe the universe would allow things to go that smoothly.



"Really," Khumalo assured him. "In the long run, I think the LACs are going to be even more useful here in the Quadrant than Tenth Fleet. I doubt any Solly with Frontier Security or Frontier Fleet would consider them any sort of threat, so they aren't going to have any deterrence value for someone like Verrochio. That's what Tenth Fleet is for. But once we get two or three squadrons of them deployed to every one of the Quadrant's systems, we'll pretty much have knocked piracy on its head. And, to be honest, the LACs are going to be the best means for gradually integrating the personnel of the local system navies into the RMN."

"I certainly agree with that," Van Dort said firmly. "No pirate in his right mind is going to cross swords with a modern Manticoran LAC. Or, at least, not after the word gets around about what happens to the first couple of them to try it. And the LAC squadrons and their personnel are going to be seen by the locals as 'theirs' in a way hyper-capable ships aren't. They'll be the local police force, not the Navy that comes swinging through the vicinity to check on things every so often. And integrating local personnel into their complements is going to be the best way to start getting our people trained up on modern naval technology, as well."



"That's the Admiralty's thinking, Sir," Michelle agreed. "It won't be the same as running them all through basic training back home, but what they have in mind is more of an orientation mission. Each LAC detachment will have its own simulators for training, and running local personnel through them will give our people a chance to evaluate their general skill levels and basic competence, which aren't necessarily the same thing. Ultimately, BuPers is going to have to set up whatever remedial education is necessary in-house, since both the Admiralty and the PM have already made it clear that there are going to be Talbotters in the RMN and that they are not going to get stuck with some kind of second-class status. That means bringing their basic educational levels up to Manticoran standards, not trying to do some sort of rote training or 'enough to get by' training like the old Peep Navy used with its conscripts. That's going to require a lot out of them in terms of extra classroom studies, at least until we get the general education system out here up to Manticoran standards, but there's no way to avoid that, and I think the people who actually want to transfer to naval service will be willing to make the effort. In fact, that's probably going to be one of those Darwinian filters that help us recruit the cream of the crop.

"In the meantime, of course, the squadrons themselves will provide a defense in depth against the kind of . . . risk-averse scum who go into piracy as a career. And, frankly, there's another advantage to it from my perspective, given what you've just told me about Commissioner Verrochio. The quicker we can get the LACs up and running to deal with people like that, the quicker I can get my strength concentrated and pushed far enough forward to remind Mr. Verrochio to stay away from our cookies."

Weird Harold wrote:There is more textev up to and including Michelle short-stopping a couple of CLACs transporting reinforcements to the Talbott LAC wings.

Shadow of Freedom
Chapter Seven
April 1922 After Yawata Strike wrote: “First, as Prime Minister Alquezar, Minister Lababibi, Minister Krietzmann, Minister Clark, and I have already discussed, we need to complete our survey of the Quadrant’s industrial capabilities as quickly as possible. I suspect our local resources may be able to contribute more materially to our defense here than some people might think. Nobody’s going to be building any superdreadnoughts anytime soon, but several of our systems—Rembrandt, San Miguel, and Spindle itself come to mind—have sufficient local industry to provide significant support for both our local defense and striking forces. Obviously, we’ll be making technical advisors from Admiral Gold Peak’s repair and depot ships available wherever possible.

“Secondly, and possibly even more importantly, Admiral Gold Peak has proposed we begin a vigorous program to expedite the raising and training of naval personnel right here in the Quadrant. The Navy’s taken substantial losses in both the Battle of Manticore and the Yawata Strike, and unless I’m sadly mistaken, the emphasis in the home system and Trevor’s Star—where the bulk of our more…technologically sophisticated population is concentrated—is going to be on reconstituting our skilled labor force as rapidly as possible. I believe that, especially if we make use of the LAC simulators already available to us and request additional simulators from the home system, we’ll be able to produce and train a significant number of naval personnel. To be painfully blunt—and I hope no one will take offense—providing personnel with the education level we would expect from the home system or Trevor’s Star is going to be beyond our capabilities here for some time to come. Within the next several T-years, the effort being invested in improving the Quadrant’s educational systems is going to correct that problem. For the immediately foreseeable future, however, it’s going to remain with us. That means the personnel we’ll be able to train won’t be as fully trained as we might hope—won’t have as deep a skill set, let’s say—but they’ll still provide a very useful expansion of our manpower, and the technical aspects of their education can be continued aboard ship.

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:Because SLN ships they at least might have experience with, dumping top of the line LAC's and Apollo Pods would require a tremendous investment of manpower by the RMN at a time when they can ill afford it.

You do realize that there is textev that LAC wings are already deploying to Talbott systems?

The RMN is investing that manpower for their defense anyway. Why not get double duty out of them and their simulators by recruiting and training locals into the LAC wings for remedial general education and RMN specific hardware? Especially since that is the plan as stated in textev?

Weird Harold wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:You do realize that there is textev that LAC wings are already deploying to Talbott systems?

The first bit of that textev:

Storm From The Shadows
Chapter Seventeen
April 1921 PD wrote: "The main thing it would mean, Henri," Khumalo said, "is that the majority of the emergency war program construction will have time to come into service. And that, in turn, means the Admiralty's plans to beef up our naval presence here in the Quadrant could proceed without worrying about diversions to meet unanticipated needs on the main front. Which means Vice Admiral Gold Peak's new fleet's order of battle would come forward more or less as scheduled, and that we ought to see the first light attack craft squadrons being deployed within the next month or so."

"Really?" Krietzmann looked as if he were more than half afraid to believe it. He obviously didn't think Khumalo was lying to him. It was more as if he found it difficult to believe the universe would allow things to go that smoothly.



"Really," Khumalo assured him. "In the long run, I think the LACs are going to be even more useful here in the Quadrant than Tenth Fleet. I doubt any Solly with Frontier Security or Frontier Fleet would consider them any sort of threat, so they aren't going to have any deterrence value for someone like Verrochio. That's what Tenth Fleet is for. But once we get two or three squadrons of them deployed to every one of the Quadrant's systems, we'll pretty much have knocked piracy on its head. And, to be honest, the LACs are going to be the best means for gradually integrating the personnel of the local system navies into the RMN."

"I certainly agree with that," Van Dort said firmly. "No pirate in his right mind is going to cross swords with a modern Manticoran LAC. Or, at least, not after the word gets around about what happens to the first couple of them to try it. And the LAC squadrons and their personnel are going to be seen by the locals as 'theirs' in a way hyper-capable ships aren't. They'll be the local police force, not the Navy that comes swinging through the vicinity to check on things every so often. And integrating local personnel into their complements is going to be the best way to start getting our people trained up on modern naval technology, as well."



"That's the Admiralty's thinking, Sir," Michelle agreed. "It won't be the same as running them all through basic training back home, but what they have in mind is more of an orientation mission. Each LAC detachment will have its own simulators for training, and running local personnel through them will give our people a chance to evaluate their general skill levels and basic competence, which aren't necessarily the same thing. Ultimately, BuPers is going to have to set up whatever remedial education is necessary in-house, since both the Admiralty and the PM have already made it clear that there are going to be Talbotters in the RMN and that they are not going to get stuck with some kind of second-class status. That means bringing their basic educational levels up to Manticoran standards, not trying to do some sort of rote training or 'enough to get by' training like the old Peep Navy used with its conscripts. That's going to require a lot out of them in terms of extra classroom studies, at least until we get the general education system out here up to Manticoran standards, but there's no way to avoid that, and I think the people who actually want to transfer to naval service will be willing to make the effort. In fact, that's probably going to be one of those Darwinian filters that help us recruit the cream of the crop.

"In the meantime, of course, the squadrons themselves will provide a defense in depth against the kind of . . . risk-averse scum who go into piracy as a career. And, frankly, there's another advantage to it from my perspective, given what you've just told me about Commissioner Verrochio. The quicker we can get the LACs up and running to deal with people like that, the quicker I can get my strength concentrated and pushed far enough forward to remind Mr. Verrochio to stay away from our cookies."

There is more textev up to and including Michelle short-stopping a couple of CLACs transporting reinforcements to the Talbott LAC wings.

Sigs wrote:And they had crew's on board? Right? So deploying 1,000 LAC's to Talbott systems would still require 1,000 crews plus support personnel so that would be 20,000 to 50,000 people? What this means is that the RMN will tie down tens of thousands of its personnel if not hundreds of thousands and all of Talbotts former crew's for an unknown amount of time and at the end of that period all of the Talbot navies would have plenty of LAC crew's that will be trained in very specific and rigid roles thereby making them useless for anything other than LAC operations without retraining... brilliant use of resources.

Vince wrote:Except that the primary purpose of deploying the LACs and their crews was to defend the individual systems of the Talbott Quadrant that had joined the Star Empire, as well as freeing up the hyper-capable units of the RMN to be able to act as necessary instead dispersing them in penny-packet deployments tied down to defend the individual systems.

The RMN mission to defend the individual systems of the Talbott Quadrant is not going to go away, so you might as well get double duty out of the units, LACs in this case (the opportunity hands on training), their crews (instructors), and the supporting equipment (including simulators) you have to deploy to defend the systems anyway.

And I suspect that the roles are not as rigid as you think. A LAC commander will still be responsible for his LAC and crew in working with other units (specializing working with LACs as part of a squadron or wing, but also supporting hyper-capable units), just like his hyper-capble unit commander counterpart. An engineer still will be an engineer (with a specialty in fission reactors). A tac officer will still be a tac officer (with a specialty in LAC tactics). An ECM officer will still be an ECM officer (with a specialty in LAC ECM systems). Etc, etc.

If the roles were as rigid as you seem to think they were, it would have taken several times longer for the RMN to work up their very first LAC wing (HMS Minotaur's) in Echoes of Honor.

Sigs wrote:...

Sigs wrote:

And I suspect that the roles are not as rigid as you think. A LAC commander will still be responsible for his LAC and crew in working with other units (specializing working with LACs as part of a squadron or wing, but also supporting hyper-capable units), just like his hyper-capble unit commander counterpart. An engineer still will be an engineer (with a specialty in fission reactors). A tac officer will still be a tac officer (with a specialty in LAC tactics). An ECM officer will still be an ECM officer (with a specialty in LAC ECM systems). Etc, etc.

Each person will be trained in their role and only their role since they start of behind education wise. So this to me means that the crew's will be trained in specific roles that would not allow them to deviate significantly from those roles since they will rapidly lose competency when you move away from their specific role.

If the roles were as rigid as you seem to think they were, it would have taken several times longer for the RMN to work up their very first LAC wing (HMS Minotaur's) in Echoes of Honor.

They will be rigid BECAUSE the Talbott crew's are behind education wise not because the roles themselves are rigid. The RMN crew's have a general background of well rounded basic education plus whatever training the RMN gave them, while the Talbott crew's will be starting behind the SKM's education and the naval training would be very different from system to system which means that the LAC crew's would have to train the Talbott crew's for their specific task and nothing else.

If you spend 6 intensive months training someone to be a navigator of a LAC they may be a great navigator but since their education is lower to begin with they will not be able to do anything else on board with any degree of competence. And a LAC has such a small crew that there would not be enough people to 1) help train him/her and 2)take up the slack in the meantime.