Any what if moments?

Exactly. Depending on just how the Articles of War match up with current military law - of which there are as many as there are militaries in the world, although most Commonwealth countries are recognisably similar to the UK - it might be possible for somebody to lay charges against her. If that happened, though, they would be dismissed almost instantly.

saber964 wrote:Not going to happen, the entire chain of command endorsed her decision. Even if they had tried to do so the navy would have come close to a mutiny over it. Honor would've had the ultimate legal defense that no court would get around, that of extenuating and exceptional circumstance.

Another what if...


What if Admiral Henke had decided that the response to the slaughter in New Tuscany should not to lay low due to the situation in regards to the main war with Haven and the RMN's weakened state after the BoM and the still uncertain future of the main war. If she doesn't go to New Tuscany and destroy Byng, then Crandall has zero excuse to go and attack Spindle. If none of this happens, then the MA does not launch Oyster Bay as it has no SLN breathing down the SEM's neck.

Sigs wrote:Another what if...


What if Admiral Henke had decided that the response to the slaughter in New Tuscany should not to lay low due to the situation in regards to the main war with Haven and the RMN's weakened state after the BoM and the still uncertain future of the main war. If she doesn't go to New Tuscany and destroy Byng, then Crandall has zero excuse to go and attack Spindle. If none of this happens, then the MA does not launch Oyster Bay as it has no SLN breathing down the SEM's neck.

Not so. Bing merely does some other stupid thing. He is so juiced to stick it in Manticore's eye he would be emboldened by his success against a few destroyers, he takes it to Spindle himself.

Besides the SLN is a joke, the purpose of that involvement is to unravel the league, not to use the SLN to crush Manticore. OB is moved up by BoM, not defeat of Bing and Crandall. AD hopes RHN returns to finish Beowulf's last ally once and for all. Then they play the SL against Haven.

What if the Maccabeus' attempt on Protectors Palace in their bid to kill Benjamin and his family and place Jared Mayhew as the new Protector had been successful?

Of course, could it have been successful without killing Nimitz and Honor?

cthia wrote:What if the Maccabeus' attempt on Protectors Palace in their bid to kill Benjamin and his family and place Jared Mayhew as the new Protector had been successful?

Of course, could it have been successful without killing Nimitz and Honor?

First, of course if the assassination/coup had been successful there would be no Grayson in the alliance.

Second, the only way to have pulled it off without killing Nimitz and Honor would have been if those two had refused Protector Benjamin's invitation which I don't see happening, Honor would want her mentor's mission to succeed no matter the personal cost to her or her dignity.

WeirdlyWired wrote:
Not so. Bing merely does some other stupid thing. He is so juiced to stick it in Manticore's eye he would be emboldened by his success against a few destroyers, he takes it to Spindle himself.

Even he realized that he crossed a line when it came to destroying the three destroyers. He had to know that even if Manticore had only sent the complaints without actually resorting to military action his career would have taken a hit in the neck at the very least and knowing that, even he would round up enough brain cells to avoid making it worse for himself.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Besides the SLN is a joke, the purpose of that involvement is to unravel the league, not to use the SLN to crush Manticore.

Wasn't the whole purpose to embolden Haven? If there is no threat to Manticore from the League it would still have sufficient forces to destroy Haven and time to rebuild it's industry before the SLN gets involved.

WeirdlyWired wrote: OB is moved up by BoM, not defeat of Bing and Crandall.

Without the threat from the League, the SEM even after OB has sufficient munitions and ships to take the war to Haven and destroy a good chunk of it's industry and fleet. True they wont be able to find Bolthole but ultimately Bolthole is irrelevant, as important as an industrial center as it is, it can only crew only so much of it's construction.

The SEM, Andermani and Grayson, crush Haven and rebuild Manticore's and Graysons industry at leisure without the added threat of an imminent or active war with the league and you are left with the same situation, MAnticore controls most of the WHJ outside it's space and has rebuild enough of it's home industry to be able to sustain it's military at least in the short run. The SLN still has no idea how outclassed they are and Manticore knows that there is a hidden player stirring trouble so they will become more vigilant.

WeirdlyWired wrote: AD hopes RHN returns to finish Beowulf's last ally once and for all. Then they play the SL against Haven.

Haven could only have taken advantage of the situation if Manticore was facing the League as well. After all OB destroyed a lot of ships, ship building and munitions building infrastructure but the lack of combat in the previous few months meant the RMN and GSN had stocked up on their missiles

robert132 wrote:

cthia wrote:What if the Maccabeus' attempt on Protectors Palace in their bid to kill Benjamin and his family and place Jared Mayhew as the new Protector had been successful?

Of course, could it have been successful without killing Nimitz and Honor?

First, of course if the assassination/coup had been successful there would be no Grayson in the alliance.

Second, the only way to have pulled it off without killing Nimitz and Honor would have been if those two had refused Protector Benjamin's invitation which I don't see happening, Honor would want her mentor's mission to succeed no matter the personal cost to her or her dignity.

Manticore wouldn't have felt compelled to help overthrow the Masadans?

Louis R wrote:Exactly. Depending on just how the Articles of War match up with current military law - of which there are as many as there are militaries in the world, although most Commonwealth countries are recognisably similar to the UK - it might be possible for somebody to lay charges against her. If that happened, though, they would be dismissed almost instantly.

saber964 wrote:Not going to happen, the entire chain of command endorsed her decision. Even if they had tried to do so the navy would have come close to a mutiny over it. Honor would've had the ultimate legal defense that no court would get around, that of extenuating and exceptional circumstance.

E-li-za-beth! There is no way Liz would have let that stand. She would have caused a constitutional crisis, or whatever she had to do. She would NOT have abandoned Honor to the dogs. No. Way.

A what if that I actually thought was going to happen during the book.

What if the Andermani turned out to be a bunch of sour krauts and attacked Honor after the Helbarde/Epps confrontation and Honor had to destroy an Andermani ship which led to war?

She wouldn't have had to. Military justice sometimes looks arbitrary, but in its own context it is just. In a case like this, charges can be dismissed by the next competent authority, which for a CO is the Superior Commander they report to. Depending on when, the commander of Hephaestus or her current squadron commander. If they think there's a case to answer it goes up the chain, eventually to the JAG's office at BuPers, and can be quashed at any node on the way. In a notorious case like this one it either wouldn't make it past the first convening officer or would be bucked all the way to the JAG for a definitive "No!", but that no isn't in doubt so Beth doesn't lift a finger.

cthia wrote:

Louis R wrote:Exactly. Depending on just how the Articles of War match up with current military law - of which there are as many as there are militaries in the world, although most Commonwealth countries are recognisably similar to the UK - it might be possible for somebody to lay charges against her. If that happened, though, they would be dismissed almost instantly.

saber964 wrote:Not going to happen, the entire chain of command endorsed her decision. Even if they had tried to do so the navy would have come close to a mutiny over it. Honor would've had the ultimate legal defense that no court would get around, that of extenuating and exceptional circumstance.

E-li-za-beth! There is no way Liz would have let that stand. She would have caused a constitutional crisis, or whatever she had to do. She would NOT have abandoned Honor to the dogs. No. Way.