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The Maya Crisis...

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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by OrlandoNative   » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:08 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:Meanwhile, the tri-systems of Erewhon, Torch, and Maya will keep building up militarily with that tacit agreement (from Cauldron of Ghosts/Yuri Radamacher as plenipotentiary ambassador) that Haven and therefore the GA has their backs as well. Be fun to see Tourville in action against the SL with the Maya forces, ya think?


Maya isn't a system, it's a *sector*. The actual sector government is on Smoking Frog. I don't recall any mention of there being a wormhole junction there.

That said, I think you're missing something here. Large groups of warships aren't going to be transiting wormholes for *attacks*. Each wormhole junction has a mass limit for simultaneous transits. That of the Manticore junction (which is probably higher than most because of it's size) is only about 30 wallers. Then it takes 18 hours to stabilize before you can send more.

So any "attack" on the sector is going to come through regular hyperspace. It's also likely it's going to go to Smoking Frog *first*, since the SL policy is to "go for the throat" - ie, attack the center of government and force surrenders.

Not that any attack is likely to succeed, since I doubt Barregos and Rozak neglected to enhance Smoking Frog's system defenses as part of their military buildup.
"Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again."
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by kzt   » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:42 pm

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Relax wrote:
What the? No that is not how real life works. When your factories are nationalized, they keep making the same product and keep selling it. You, the "owner" or shareholder get nothing and no way back in. Allowing you back in would be an admission that you own something. Now if you hold the ENGINEERING and product development, then you can release a new product made in new factories you just built and actually own and redominate the marketplace, but until then, zilch.

If you want nationalized asset training look at Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbabwe. It works great for a few ~15-20 years until the machinery falls apart as they lack the engineering. The difference is that these countries credit rating went to zero when they did this. Since everything on this worls is easily communicatable distance, it does not work as you are tied to their banking system. In this case, when the Verge goes, they switch to a different banking system as the Solarian credit is soon going to be worthless. Why do you think the rest of the world is keen on developing a secondary banking system outside of western banking system?

There is no reason in the Honorverse to have factories in the verge. The manpower needed for manufacturing is negligible. What they have are raw materials, without a buyer. Or a way to transport them anywhere they are worth anything.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by Kytheros   » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:06 pm

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kzt wrote:
Relax wrote:
What the? No that is not how real life works. When your factories are nationalized, they keep making the same product and keep selling it. You, the "owner" or shareholder get nothing and no way back in. Allowing you back in would be an admission that you own something. Now if you hold the ENGINEERING and product development, then you can release a new product made in new factories you just built and actually own and redominate the marketplace, but until then, zilch.

If you want nationalized asset training look at Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbabwe. It works great for a few ~15-20 years until the machinery falls apart as they lack the engineering. The difference is that these countries credit rating went to zero when they did this. Since everything on this worls is easily communicatable distance, it does not work as you are tied to their banking system. In this case, when the Verge goes, they switch to a different banking system as the Solarian credit is soon going to be worthless. Why do you think the rest of the world is keen on developing a secondary banking system outside of western banking system?

There is no reason in the Honorverse to have factories in the verge. The manpower needed for manufacturing is negligible. What they have are raw materials, without a buyer. Or a way to transport them anywhere they are worth anything.


In every system you have a presence? No. But there are probably regional nodes where manufacturing/processing takes place - quite possibly such locations have regional headquarters. After all, even though shipping raw materials can be cost-efficient, shipping the raw all the way into the Core where your main facilities are from each individual source world/system is probably more expensive than collecting the resources of a region locally, with smaller freighters, and then using the larger mega freighters to go further along the chain.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by Relax   » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:03 pm

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kzt wrote:There is no reason in the Honorverse to have factories in the verge. The manpower needed for manufacturing is negligible. What they have are raw materials, without a buyer. Or a way to transport them anywhere they are worth anything.


Uh, according to DW, that is where the manufacturing is. How else does the HV get all of this shipping running around? He has to have it for the shipping and for the SL budget with side helping towards the MMM.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by HungryKing   » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:29 am

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You have to remember that most systems, even in the verge, are self-sufficient for most things, not to the level of early Manticore (can build full fledged warships, just need reactors and impellers), or montana (can build anything short of a spaceship, and the important components thereof). So yes, they have factories. Given the time involved in communications, they have to able to meet unexpected runs on products. Now, as a particularly nasty thought some verge planets might have a piece of the processing pipeline missing, like say an inablity to meet their nano feedstock requirements out of their own resources, but no, even the verge planets are probably finishing the goods locally.

Relax wrote:
kzt wrote:There is no reason in the Honorverse to have factories in the verge. The manpower needed for manufacturing is negligible. What they have are raw materials, without a buyer. Or a way to transport them anywhere they are worth anything.


Uh, according to DW, that is where the manufacturing is. How else does the HV get all of this shipping running around? He has to have it for the shipping and for the SL budget with side helping towards the MMM.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by kzt   » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:50 am

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It you are the only source of imported gods and are totally focused on next quarter, you don't want the system to be self-sufficient in anything. You want them to have to buy everything from you at jacked up prices. Long term this is a problem, but in the short term it is great for you.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by Hutch   » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:57 pm

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kzt wrote:It you are the only source of imported gods and are totally focused on next quarter, you don't want the system to be self-sufficient in anything. You want them to have to buy everything from you at jacked up prices. Long term this is a problem, but in the short term it is great for you.


And since you, the transtellar(s), already own all the factories and means of production, you can actively control what is (and isn't) produced on the planet, in concert with your bought-and-paid-for government toadies.
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:43 pm

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snip
[quote="SWM"]
I don't believe the League can issue Treasury notes. The League is prohibited from borrowing money like that,

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/

snip



It was to be a charge on the LEAGUE TREASURY , instead of the Maya Sector Government. The LEAGUE was going to have to pay it off, when Maya decided not to pay on it. Also, Wodoslowski's senior aides were looking to float bonds DIRECTLY FOR EREWHON, both to increase their own influence on Erewhon, and to rake off more cash. So who is Agata Wodoslowski??? Hint--she eats dinner with the other Mandarins.

Mention is made of Lenin's comment on selling rope. . . .

You may need to re-read that chapter of the book.

Rob
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by kzt   » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:35 pm

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They simply issue them and blandly tell objectors to sue them.
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Re: The Maya Crisis...
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:32 pm

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kzt wrote:They simply issue them and blandly tell objectors to sue them.


LOL thanks kzt

SWM:
What difference would it make to them if it's illegal under the law? They don't think anyone will ever hold them accountable.

Rob
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