Lacöon I

drothgery wrote:However, it was not effectively controlled by enemy agents who had been working for centuries to discourage competence.

Well, there is that...

Is it a bad sign if all of your most competent staff officers are actually covert agents?

Zakharra wrote: No. It's the Sol system that was no longer the dominate force in the financial market. Most of the regional centers of the financial market that came into being afterwards will be in SL space. The SL is HUGE. You keep ignoring that for all intents and purposes, the SL is human space. Something like 90% of all human settled worlds are in the SL (I believe that was stated in one of the first books). Manticore, Haven, the Andermani empire? Those are outlier systems. Manticore's only strength came because its wormhole junction allowed it to reach a lot of League space. Manticore's position as a regional center is unusual in that it was the only one -not- a part of the SL. That's one of the reasons the SL was somewhat bitter about the SKM. Because they didn't control it. It's that economic influence that allowed the SKM to get the SL to be officially neutral in the war between the SKM and Haven.

I see now where your misunderstanding is coming from. 90% of all human settled worlds? Where on Earth did you get that number?

The Solarian League has less than 2000 systems. There are over 10,000 inhabited systems in the Honorverse. The League has a majority of the population and a majority of the wealth, but it does not have a majority of the volume or the systems.

The Solarian League does have quite a few regional financial centers, I'm sure. But there are a lot more regional centers scattered outside of the League, catering to the greater than 80% of inhabited systems which are not in the League. Those are the financial centers that I have been talking about. The Solarian League does not control most of the regional financial centers in the galaxy.

SWM wrote:The Solarian League does have quite a few regional financial centers, I'm sure. But there are a lot more regional centers scattered outside of the League, catering to the greater than 80% of inhabited systems which are not in the League. Those are the financial centers that I have been talking about. The Solarian League does not control most of the regional financial centers in the galaxy.

Don't be absurd. Where are the financial centers in the real world? Are there any in Niger? Zimbabwe? Cambodia? Mongolia? Afghanistan? Fiji? No, they are in NYC, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich, Tokyo etc. Why might this be?

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:The Solarian League does have quite a few regional financial centers, I'm sure. But there are a lot more regional centers scattered outside of the League, catering to the greater than 80% of inhabited systems which are not in the League. Those are the financial centers that I have been talking about. The Solarian League does not control most of the regional financial centers in the galaxy.

Don't be absurd. Where are the financial centers in the real world? Are there any in Niger? Zimbabwe? Cambodia? Mongolia? Afghanistan? Fiji? No, they are in NYC, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich, Tokyo etc. Why might this be?

Agreed, by its size and economic power, the Solarian League has to have most of the regional financial centers in its borders or control.

SWM wrote:

Zakharra wrote: No. It's the Sol system that was no longer the dominate force in the financial market. Most of the regional centers of the financial market that came into being afterwards will be in SL space. The SL is HUGE. You keep ignoring that for all intents and purposes, the SL is human space. Something like 90% of all human settled worlds are in the SL (I believe that was stated in one of the first books). Manticore, Haven, the Andermani empire? Those are outlier systems. Manticore's only strength came because its wormhole junction allowed it to reach a lot of League space. Manticore's position as a regional center is unusual in that it was the only one -not- a part of the SL. That's one of the reasons the SL was somewhat bitter about the SKM. Because they didn't control it. It's that economic influence that allowed the SKM to get the SL to be officially neutral in the war between the SKM and Haven.

I see now where your misunderstanding is coming from. 90% of all human settled worlds? Where on Earth did you get that number?

The Solarian League has less than 2000 systems. There are over 10,000 inhabited systems in the Honorverse. The League has a majority of the population and a majority of the wealth, but it does not have a majority of the volume or the systems.

The Solarian League does have quite a few regional financial centers, I'm sure. But there are a lot more regional centers scattered outside of the League, catering to the greater than 80% of inhabited systems which are not in the League. Those are the financial centers that I have been talking about. The Solarian League does not control most of the regional financial centers in the galaxy.

I thought that was mentioned in one of the earlier books, so I could be wrong. But as I do understand it, organized stellar nations like the SEM, RoH, the Andermani empire are unusual outside of the SL. It seems like most stellar polities are limited to one or two systems, not multiples. RFC hasn't made any reference to any other multi-system polities around the rest of SL space that I know of. The only reason the SEM is a regional financial area is because of its wormhole junction. Without the Junction to give it the reach across the breadth of space, Manticore would be a minor power at the best. And hence not a regional financial center.

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:The Solarian League does have quite a few regional financial centers, I'm sure. But there are a lot more regional centers scattered outside of the League, catering to the greater than 80% of inhabited systems which are not in the League. Those are the financial centers that I have been talking about. The Solarian League does not control most of the regional financial centers in the galaxy.

Don't be absurd. Where are the financial centers in the real world? Are there any in Niger? Zimbabwe? Cambodia? Mongolia? Afghanistan? Fiji? No, they are in NYC, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich, Tokyo etc. Why might this be?

But the Honorverse is not the Earth. David specifically described a distributed financial network very different from the Earth. It was the result of a complete economic catastrophe, in which people didn't trust large centralized financial markets. Besides which, the Honorverse does not have rapid communication. You have to have a distributed network to handle the financial market. You can't use the Earth as a model. Are you suggesting that systems beyond the Solarian League depend on a financial market in which the nearest regional financial center is six months away?

SWM wrote:But the Honorverse is not the Earth. David specifically described a distributed financial network very different from the Earth. It was the result of a complete economic catastrophe, in which people didn't trust large centralized financial markets. Besides which, the Honorverse does not have rapid communication. You have to have a distributed network to handle the financial market. You can't use the Earth as a model. Are you suggesting that systems beyond the Solarian League depend on a financial market in which the nearest regional financial center is six months away?

It was the SL and SL corps that built that network, for their purposes.

Do you think they give a damn about any system 6 months travel from civilization? What financial center do the Kalahari Bushmen use? How about New Guinea headhunters? How does this tragic lack of convenient financial centers impact the lives of the headhunters or of the bankers in Zurich?

kzt wrote:

SYED wrote:is any one else thinking the corruption and bureaucracy of the league will really work against them, supplies sold off, side deals made. ALso, the eague never had to efficient in business, it had sheer size and quantity on its side, but with the war, quality and speed will matter, and that are not the league strong suit

Have you ever read a history of the USN 1939-1945? Let's just say the USN was not exactly at the top of their game when the war started, and both underestimated and had a distinct lack of intel on the IJN.

The US had several problems getting intell about Japan during WWII.

1) Lack of agents on the ground.
2) Lack of Japanese linguist(less than 500 speakers total, most academics were immigrants and inturned).
3) Racism
4) Lack of knowledge about industrial areas outside Tokyo area and Inland Sea.

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:But the Honorverse is not the Earth. David specifically described a distributed financial network very different from the Earth. It was the result of a complete economic catastrophe, in which people didn't trust large centralized financial markets. Besides which, the Honorverse does not have rapid communication. You have to have a distributed network to handle the financial market. You can't use the Earth as a model. Are you suggesting that systems beyond the Solarian League depend on a financial market in which the nearest regional financial center is six months away?

How does this tragic lack of convenient financial centers impact the lives of the headhunters or of the bankers in Zurich?

There is a difference?

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:But the Honorverse is not the Earth. David specifically described a distributed financial network very different from the Earth. It was the result of a complete economic catastrophe, in which people didn't trust large centralized financial markets. Besides which, the Honorverse does not have rapid communication. You have to have a distributed network to handle the financial market. You can't use the Earth as a model. Are you suggesting that systems beyond the Solarian League depend on a financial market in which the nearest regional financial center is six months away?

It was the SL and SL corps that built that network, for their purposes.

Do you think they give a damn about any system 6 months travel from civilization? What financial center do the Kalahari Bushmen use? How about New Guinea headhunters? How does this tragic lack of convenient financial centers impact the lives of the headhunters or of the bankers in Zurich?

Hi kzt,

I loved your illustration. That was worth a chuckle. But I do think that SWM does have a point. A system way back in beyond such as Nuncio does need a financial center of some sort... unless they are trading amongst themselves with wooden nickels...

Don

What does a small isolated planet need in the way of financial services? How does that compare to what Zimbabwe needs in the way of financial services? For Talbott quadrant, the financial center was Rembrandt, which wasn't exactly London. At the start of SoS you think you could go to Rembrant and buy 150 billion Manticoran dollars worth of Hauptman Cartel long term bonds in exchange for 50 billion of the Tallulah Corporation’s short-term bonds and 100 billion of Trifecta Corporation’s common stock that you happen to have with you?

If you just wished to sell your 100 billion worth of Trifecta Corporation’s common stock would they be willing to give you 100 billion Manticoran dollars?

The answer is no, they can't and won't do that. These volumes are not liquid on Rembrant. Not to mention that nobody on Rembrant has immediate access to 150 billion worth of Hauptman Cartel long term bonds, nor 100 billion Manticoran dollars. You could probably easily do this on Manticore or the other major financial centers, at least before the war.