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Ships of the wall

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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:13 am

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crewdude48 wrote:The compensators are so far behind that an SLN CL or maybe even a DD can be out accelerated by a RMN SD(p). And the nodes have to be very carefully placed and shaped to create a wedge. I don't think you could use the nodes from an SD on a freighter.
Well presumably a freighter that's quite close to the dimensions of the original SD the nodes were designed for would be compatible with them. :D

On the other hand, nodes seem to be designed not just for hull size, but also (to a lesser degree) for planned max acceleration. I believe there have been passing mentions that it's less than efficient to just stick an uprated compensator in a ship, you really need to modify or swap the nodes as well to keep the propulsion balanced.

From that perspective it doesn't seem practical to match up nodes designed for (slow) SLN SDs with a top of the line Mantie/Grayson compensator for a fast freighter (even if you did want a freighter the exact size of the original donor SD)
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:01 am

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Another challenge for using SLN components: software differences. While it is possible to graft SLN components into other ships, you may need to reprogram them to get them to work and communicate with the required systems on your ship that they are used with.

Of course, if you wanted to be particularly disruptive and had the time and resources you could: fabricate funeral urns from SLN SD armor, engrave with the informatin of the source ship, the name/serial number of the remains and where they were killed (in an act of war against the Star Kingdom of Manticore inwhich Admrial Fillerta- with no state of war then existing- attempted tos subjugate and occupy the Manticore Home System…for further details please contact the Dept of Personel, Solarian League Navy……
Send it to the most current address for said deceased sailor from the captured SLN database.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by TheMonster   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:46 pm

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KNick wrote: Most people would say install a hatch for easy access. However, the low end of the temperature scale in the compartment was 160 degrees, oxygen content (high end) was 2% and CO2 and CO was up there, along with all the gases that leaked in from the stack.
I would say to install not a hatch, but a lubrication system. It ought to be possible to run small pipes to feed grease to the lubrication points, with a "pump" (basically the guts of a grease gun to push the grease down each pipe) possibly tied to the motor's output via a worm gear to severely step down the rotations and maintain a constant supply of grease. Alternatively, there would be a wheel someone would have to turn by hand once every few weeks to do the job.

There would be a need to periodically replenish the supply of grease to the feed mechanism, but it would be far less often, and wouldn't require a cutting torch (it might involve a torch to heat up the cap on the grease reservoir if it had become seized up.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by TheMonster   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:10 pm

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Theemile wrote:I will say it again: strip the ship's armories and small craft, repair bays and medical facilities. Give the armories to newly freed planets, sell the de-milled small craft and repair bays to Talbott/Silensian/Havenite small businesses at cut rate prices, and donate the med bays to the poorest worlds in Talbott/Silensia. After you offload the satellites (and deploy them for traffic control/weather/comm sats at poor planets)and the rest of the fungables you don't need a shipyard for, you slag the rest.
I agree with the general sentiment, but would make a few changes.

Give the armories to the Talbott Quadrant Guard and/or the planetary agencies like the KNP and MMS, and if any are left over let Silesia have at 'em too. Solarian small arms ought to be fine for them.

I also expect there's quite a bit in the way of furnishings that could be stripped. A Solarian SD is bound to have galleys full of cooking equipment that would do just fine in freighters or forts to feed personnel. It has environmental systems that keep the CO2 changed out for O2 (I figure the easiest way to manage this is some kind of hydroponic bays with grow lights run off the ship's fusion reactors, which would also produce fresh food, and might even use excreta irradiated to kill E. coli and other nasties as fertilizer, but we don't have any textev of exactly how these things are done) that probably could be plugged in as well. There are the beds in which spacers and Marines sleep, bathroom fixtures... There might be quite a bit worth cannibalizing that involves basic technology that hasn't really updated any since the ships were built.

When you're done taking what you want off the ships, you sell what's left to someone like Hauptmann, Skydomes, or Carlucci, and let them figure out how best to make a profit on the deal.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:32 pm

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Positroll wrote:Streak drives
- are not yet available for the GA
- will be very expensive
I'm not sure whether even the MA will bother installing them on any freighters.


The streak drive is simply a larger hyper generator that can access two further hyper bands. The component itself may be more expensive but even if it is tripled, the absolute cost of a warship is far, far higher.

Freighters already stick to the bottom four to six bands of hyperspace while courier boats can reach the eighth. Warships tend to stick to the seventh, but are capable of more, as evidenced by Alice Truman taking Apollo to the edge of the ninth wall on her dash from Yeltsin's Star. The Alignment's courier boats(and possibly warships) can reach the tenth.

The utility of being able to reach higher bands of hyperspace should not be underestimated. News services will want the fastest to get their stories out first and diplomatic services can't afford to let the media get a jump on them. Heck, speaking of Honor of the Queen, if Apollo and White Haven's BC squadrons could access even one further hyper band, they would've arrived long before Saladin shot Fearless up.[/quote]

Just to be clear: with "freighter" I meant a Military auxiliary- with military grade hyper generator, compensator and sensors ...

Ok, I m off for now ...[/quote]

Trust me every possible use for these ships has been tried debated disagreed with and eventually discarded. Even landing them on the back water worlds as modern living medical facilities training bases etc....

The only thing that might work is pulling the guns and missiles and using them as floating prisons.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by saber964   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:07 pm

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Ok, Auxiliaries don't need first line military H-generators and compensators. What they need is speed but not that much speed. Look at HMAMC Wayfarer IIRC she had a top speed of 150-180g at 7.25 million tons what if you had a H-generator and compensator for one of the early SD classes like Samothrace class (333-416) or King William class (334-417) that would more than double Wayfarer's speed.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:24 pm

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Trojans had civilian wedges to make them look like a target to lure pirates in close where they could be forced to surrender while facing SD Grasers.

Hence the name Trojan.

If you want a Fast Freighter you use a Fast Freighter. Luckily Filareta donated 40 of them. Honour had 60 pretending to be SD.

Besides Trojans have much better uses as Training Ships.
14 ready to go.

Old SD have already been dismissed as training ships.

Fast Freighters or even slow ones can be made into excellent training ships. Without armour they don't cause problems for accessing their internals.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by MAD-4A   » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:00 am

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munroburton wrote:I dislike those "I just have to outrun you" analogies

it was just an "analogy" to point out that the ships don't have to be better than the best the Manties have to offer, they just have to be better than what their up against. in this case SL-SDs without the Manty EW & sensor upgrades.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by MAD-4A   » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:And as David Weber pointed out, you don't have training, logistics, or supplies to keep those SLN ships in service…And that's ignoring major things like their ammo is different. So they've got whatever missiles are in their (collective) magazines and that's it.
Use what you have, then cannibalize. The shuttle Atlantis wasn’t used until after the Challenger accident. Before that it sat in a hanger as a spare parts ben. Also where electronics are concerned, there is no such thing as incompatible. You can run MS programs on a Mac & Mac programs on a PC (if you have the right software). In the 60’s the US Navy decided to adopt the OTO Melara compact 76 mm gun. It used a 16 bit FC processor. But the US processors at the time were only 8 bit. Not compatible. But a widget rigged it together & they’re still in service. You just need a tech to figure out an interface.

Jonathan_S wrote:Exactly how long do you think you can keep something as complex as an SD in useful service without access to the full repair manual and the replacement necessary when something breaks or wears out? Stuff is always breaking on the ship and it's a non trivial task to keep one operational even when it's the one you've trained on, have first class experience maintaining, and have full access to repair / replacement parts for it.

Effective active service with absolutely no compatible replacement parts? 6-8 months at-least, or 2-3 minor fights. Jury-rigging & canabelizion out of service & wrecked units a little longer. That’s enough to give a little breathing room for the TC from FF raids and after that just keeping them moving and having the appearance of operation can deter raids and attacks on key areas (the enemy wont know if their systems are failing). That would give time for some production to be restored.
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Re: Ships of the wall
Post by MAD-4A   » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:31 am

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munroburton wrote:Manticore and Grayson also don't have spare shoes or logs to sit on, thanks to Operation Oyster Bay. No shipyards and no factories - nowhere to refit and no equipment to put aboard.
don’t need them for minor electronic refits - a fleet tender would suffice (and have much of the components)
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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