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by cthia
» Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:30 pm
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cthia
Posts: 14951
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I certainly trust your judgement better than my own on tech. Initially I didn't think it would even matter to the freighter if the drive is active. If you are correct, the Lennys shouldn't be able to launch any small craft. How can they even launch weapons if the area local to them is so dangerous. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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by Jonathan_S
» Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:38 am
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Jonathan_S
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A spider drive is probably less dangerous to be around than an active wedge (though admittedly with a quite different shape to the danger space). Just because you can't have an active wedge while inside another ship, as we so graphically saw demonstrated, doesn't mean you can't launch weapons or small craft while using your wedge. Remember that spider ships are roughly triangular in cross section, so when you look at them head on you see something like a triangle. The drive spurs run the length of the ship along the 3 ridges formed by the tips of the triangle. (So 120 degrees apart) Crossing a ridge while the drive is active would be very destructive to you, similar to how impacting a wedge would be. And a freighter wrapped around a spider ship is in the way of all 3 ridges. But weapons and small craft can exit any of the 3 "broadsides" between the ridges and safely move away from the ship, or turn and head forward or astern, without coming anywhere near the danger space around the drive. And of course they could also be fired from the bow or stern of the ship (though you probably wouldn't put small craft hangers there) |
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by cthia
» Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:43 pm
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cthia
Posts: 14951
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Two questions:
Why can't missiles generate sidewalls? Why couldn't the fusion plants aboard the captured Solly ships have been used as external power supply sources to recharge the capacitors of Shannon's wormhole assault laser cluster to get even more than four or five shots? They wouldn't even have to be stealthy. Or were they already using them? Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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by Dauntless
» Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:57 pm
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Dauntless
Posts: 1072
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why no sidewalls on missiles?
I believe that most missiles don't die to side shots, most missiles kills are down the throat shots. also missile are already big and weigh a lot (I believe a capital ship missile is about 120 tons). also to put something extra in something will have to come out (like ECM or a drive ring) and the missile will still be vulnerable to down the throat or up the kilt shots. you could switch to missiles that are even bigger but that has issues with new tubes for ships or smaller throw weight out of similar sized pods etc. that is just of the top of my head. I'm sure the experts can come up with another 3 or 4 reasons. |
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by tlb
» Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:39 pm
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tlb
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I do not have any more knowledge than Dauntless, but believe that bulk and complexity would explain both questions.
The counter missile kills by wedge fratricide, which would not be affected by the presence of a sidewall. As Dauntless says, energy weapon defenses are used against missiles that are are incoming - so mostly down the throat shots. Does the fusion plant need an operator? If so, then it is out of contention. Remembering that the defensive graser is replacing a single-shot mine, it is already 4 or 5 times as flexible as the object it replaced. With enough of them, it would not be necessary to recharge until after the action was over and the mines might still be present in reserve. |
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by Jonathan_S
» Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:22 pm
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Jonathan_S
Posts: 8793
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I guess missiles trying to engage a ship that rolled behind its wedge (so firing the instant they've got a line of sight past the lip of the wedge) would fire sideways and thus the targeted ship would would be engaging the missile's broadside aspect. But I imagine most missiles die to down the throat shots. And you've got a good point about how large the missile has to be to fit everything it's already got. I don't think you could take a sidewall generator able to stand up to even a PDLC at 30,000 km and scale it down into something the size of even a capital missile. And since you're most vulnerable from ahead you'd need a buckler wall, which is an even bigger generator and requires impeller nodes designed to be compatible with the bow wall. Remember that a LAC's bow wall generator was large enough that the crew of the Shrike Bad Penny couldn't find any room inside to field fit a spare one to act as a stern wall (like the Ferrets had from the factory). They had to mount it externally. So if something the size of a modern destroyer can't make space for a 2nd one that implies it's a fairly hefty chunk of hardware (I'd place a WAG at around the size of a small hatchback) Of course that's a lot more powerful that you probably need to resist PDLCs (even at the closer range missiles fly) but you're talking about something that's probably a very sizable fraction the size of the entire missile! Also we know missile impellers work somewhat differently that a ship's nodes do; so they might not even be compatible with sidewalls at all. And making missile larger means you can carry and fire less of them (even ignoring the issue with them not fitting in any current ship's tubes) - and smaller salvos are likely to swamp any slight advantage you might get from a slightly more survivable missile. |
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by cthia
» Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:52 am
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cthia
Posts: 14951
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Thanks, everyone.
I asked because the narration in UH says "...since a missile can't generate a sidewall..." Whether it is possible or not, an impeller is a requirement? So, the slower graser torp has no chance of acquiring extra protection in the future? Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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by cthia
» Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:20 am
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cthia
Posts: 14951
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Notwithstanding the fact that a wedge would illuminate the GT.
Also, the size it would add to system defense missiles wouldn't really matter. New pods could be designed for them. The question is whether it would be worth it. If the lion's share of missiles are destroyed head on, it wouldn't be worth it. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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by tlb
» Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:45 am
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tlb
Posts: 4441
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Since a sidewall uses the same technology as the wedge; the graser torpedo cannot use it, because it is detectable by the same technology that can detect the wedge. There is no benefit to a sidewall, by itself, without its connection to the wedge. |
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by Theemile
» Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:48 am
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Theemile
Posts: 5241
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CMs destroy in wedge on wedge interaction, so they will always win, independent of sidewalls (if you can call mutual fratricide "winning"). PDLCs only attack in the last few moments of a missile's flight, in thee time when a missile is bearing down on it's target - the last few moments of which the wedge has been dropped and the laserheads are released to independantly maneuver to target their victim. So a PDLC is either firing straight down the throat of a missile boring straight in on the ship when the missile about to drop it's wedge to deploy it's laserheads, or if the missile is performing a flyby attack against a rolled target or a bow or stern aspect, allowing the PDLC a brief window to fire sideways at a missile - which just dropped it's wedge and is maneuvering for the sideways attack. Either way, the missile is defenseless when the PDLC fires at the missile. Sidewalls may assist against escorting vessels using their PDLCs in thickening the defensive fire of another ship and picking off missiles from the side, but in 99% of cases, ships in combat are too worried about their personal defense in the PDLC range to consider worrying about defending an adjacent ship.besides, with current standoff ranges being >30,000 KM, ships in a squadron combat formation are still firing into the open front aspect of a missile. ******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships." |
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