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SPOILER end of the MA

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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by kzt   » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:53 pm

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David has already discussed this here. The RMNs problem isn’t offense, it’s defense. They have very deadly missiles, and in large battles the survival time is under a minute plus time of flight.
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by pappilon   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:26 am

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1)Neither the GA generally nor Haven specifically, needs to actually build export LACs. All they need to do is sell the plans ans specifications and manufacturing licenses, then send a bean counter and a few QA engineers for the first flight Cimterres or pre-second war DDs and CLs or whatever.

2)As we should have learned in Silesia, a "Smart Government" would issue Letters of Marque to captains of armed merchant ships. Gives the Captain and crew legal cover. Not sure what legal issues it creates for Nouveau Somalia, the issuer of said Letters of Marque.

3)a) Haven still needs to replace all the SDs and screen it lost at Operation Beatrice, n'est-ce pas? (b) The entire GA should be replacing ALL pre-Keyhole 2 SDs they still have in inventory. [aside] Shouldn't someone think to upgrade Kumalo's ancient Samothrace class Sd with something a little more modern? Not that he needs it, it just looks ...shabby.

4) SPOILER:

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Didn't QEIII specifically state that the GA would most emphatically not be the policeman of the known universe? that it would be most inhumane of the GA to prevent the NWO from learning conflict resolution skills on its own.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by SharkHunter   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:57 am

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One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread... (and given that I haven't read UH yet, please forgive if this detail was dealt with already).

What happens to the force equation if the Nesbitt who is an MAlign mole finds out where Bolthole is located? Seems to me that the correct move by the BadGuys would be to capture or take out that particular shipyard because it is where the brain trust for the GA is now located. So the correct move for the RHN and the RMN has to be on getting the GA ships brought up to near RMN standards and the mind-trusts and research back into securable and separate locations, and forcing the hunt for the MAlign hidey-hole before they can strike again. That's where cruisers should take the lead and why any new RMN shipyards should be turning out SagCs, etc. in job lots.

Once the RHN/GA combined SD(ps) are in the field, Manticore can cut back on new construction because they can trust Beowulf and the daughter colonies take the lead on producing their own ships, the Andermani, Maya, etc. The GA goal isn't to dominate the SLN, it's to co-exist peacefully with enough powerful neighbors that galactic prosperity and fairness goes up... and let galactic justice deal with the MAlign and the RF from a position of strong political stability. Thoughts?
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by Dauntless   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:09 am

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can't really answer that too much without spoiling UH
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by Sigs   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:09 am

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ldwechsler wrote:
It is likely that several trends will develop after the war:

1) More focus on ships like Rolands and Hexampuma C's. They can handle a real lot of issues and they are less expensive.

I agree, I think Rolands and Sag-C's would be prominent in the post war order of battle for the GA, maybe with some upgrades for the Rolands.

2) A lot of R&D. Look to be able to deliver bigger missiles are longer distances. Plus even more upgrades on anti-missile systems.
There is only so much distance you can get out of a missile before even the GA sees very diminished return of investment.

3) Real heavy development on anti-spider tech. I would not be surprised if perhaps one or two people left around on Mesa might have some knowledge. Also, Anton or other techs might manage to find info in destroyed computer systems.
The MA destroyed a lot, and it was quite ambitious but I have a hard time believing that they destroyed every vital installation, killed every person they aimed for and destroyed every piece of intelligence in their final bombing. I would think there is always the chance and its a rather large that something went wrong somewhere and there is an intact lab or a bunch of people who are sitting on top of a bomb that didn't go off and would be more then willing to talk to the GA's investigators.
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by Sigs   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:20 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
More Saganami-Cs (or a Saganami-D design to correct observed deficiencies,) is very probable. More Rolands is NOT in the cards; there are too many deficiencies in the Roland design that make it unsuitable for peacetime missions. (No marines, forex._

Next generation of Rolands can be redesigned to remove flag bridge and add marine capabilities. Rolands demonstrated that in war time they are not really in need of facilities for flag officer and in peacetime they will not be in need of facilities for flag officers as well.



Removing the Flag Deck from the Roland in the next version, adding facilities for the marines and maybe beefing up the crew of the Roland would make it ideal warship and peace time ship.
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by SharkHunter   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:20 am

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--snipping--
Sigs wrote:Next generation of Rolands can be redesigned to remove flag bridge and add marine capabilities. Rolands demonstrated that in war time they are not really in need of facilities for flag officer and in peacetime they will not be in need of facilities for flag officers as well.

The flag area probably isn't big enough to accommodate enough to make it worth the redesign. My bet is that you can probably build a ship like the Charles Ward for about the same cost, and it is already built to be "module hot-swappable" so it could carry marines, etc. fairly easily. My question would be "just go with Sag-Cs as the predominant cruiser class" instead of more DDs.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by Sigs   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:29 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:The flag area probably isn't big enough to accommodate enough to make it worth the redesign. My bet is that you can probably build a ship like the Charles Ward for about the same cost, and it is already built to be "module hot-swappable" so it could carry marines, etc. fairly easily. My question would be "just go with Sag-Cs as the predominant cruiser class" instead of more DDs.

By Redesigning I didn't mean just restricting to redistributing the internal space, add 52k tons and make it half the size of a sag c.Increase Crew, Endurance, add Marine facilities and increase ammunition capacity. You end up with a ship that has more ammunition, larger crew which should allow it to be more versatile and more importantly should allow the ship to have a reinforced platoon on board with the ability to add more marines if the need arises.

A Roland with more ammunition and a larger navy crew plus marines would be quite a powerful weapon, there is no need to send a Sag C to do a job that a ship half the size can do just as well.
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by kzt   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:11 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:The flag area probably isn't big enough to accommodate enough to make it worth the redesign. My bet is that you can probably build a ship like the Charles Ward for about the same cost, and it is already built to be "module hot-swappable" so it could carry marines, etc. fairly easily. My question would be "just go with Sag-Cs as the predominant cruiser class" instead of more DDs.

The flag area is easily large enough to handle several squads of marines, it's all plot that it can't. Just the Squadron CO's cabin could berth a squad and all their gear. ( https://i.redd.it/3irw7aq5uw611.jpg ) Read again the description of how large a cruiser CO's cabin is, including the included dining space. And the senior staff officers get pretty nice sized cabins too, plus the flag briefing rooms.
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Re: SPOILER end of the MA
Post by pappilon   » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:31 pm

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By the time you start making a big-a$$t destroyer even larger with more magazine space and no flag capability, then include a marine detatchmet or 3, you may as well just call it a new class CA and leave the Rolands alone for the mission they are designed for.

Its time to scrap all the obsolete, manpower intensive POS ships in the fleet and replace them. However yes there is much more to do and new hulls will be rather low on the priority list, which did set off a flurry of accusations of treason, stupidity, Gross incompetence, a return to the Janacek policies of the inter-war period rom SMR et al.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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