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Core world vulnerability

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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by hanuman   » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:12 pm

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The GA might not KNOW about Darius, but there are several passages in Cauldron in which, among others, Michelle speculates that the MA has a bolthole someplace, and that after the news of Anton's and Victor's discoveries on Mesa became public, the MA would try and get its most vital personnel off Mesa.
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:22 am

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The E wrote:
Alistair wrote:Nearly all SL core worlds have both immense wealth no real navy and no infrastructure to build a navy


This is an unfounded assumption.

So as the SL falls apart what will happen to these systems?

Will they be ransacked by Neo-Barbarians like ancient rome was? And if some are pillaged by raiders how will that effect the rest of the former league?

Will they be ripe for the picking for the RF on one hand and the SEM on the other?

Thoughts?


Well, thought one is that your basic assumption is flawed. Any core system has enough ressources to maintain a modestly sized SDF; given that the breakup of the League will not be a quick event, there is plenty of time for several of them to make defense treaties with their neighbors to avert any sort of barbarian raiding.

Hell, there's a good chance that SLN fleet elements will defect to some of the breakaway core systems.

And then there's the small issue that while these systems may not have military shipyards right now, they certainly have the industrial bases to acquire them in a hurry if they feel the need.


It is true that they have the industrial infrastructure to build navies. They are also technologically advanced enough to eventually match GA tech. But right now what do they build? SL yech proofs the, against similarly equiped neighbors, but not against GA or MAlign. So right now they are vulnerable to both.

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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by George J. Smith   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:41 am

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[quote="Zakharra]
snip

and knowing the GA knows about that tech and has a scientist that worked on them, the GA's R&D will be furiously working on their own versions. The streak and spider drive warships aren't going to be as effective as the MAlign/RF hoped for.[/quote][/quote]

I agree regarding the streak drive, however; the only reason I see for the GA to develop a spider drive ship is so they can then develop technology to detect it. The spider drive ships are slow compared to impeller drive ships and their only advantage is the level of stealth the have. Once the GA have a way of detecting a spider drive signature any spider drive ship is just another target.
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by Zakharra   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:14 am

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George J. Smith wrote:[quote="Zakharra]
snip

and knowing the GA knows about that tech and has a scientist that worked on them, the GA's R&D will be furiously working on their own versions. The streak and spider drive warships aren't going to be as effective as the MAlign/RF hoped for.[/quote][/quote]

I agree regarding the streak drive, however; the only reason I see for the GA to develop a spider drive ship is so they can then develop technology to detect it. The spider drive ships are slow compared to impeller drive ships and their only advantage is the level of stealth the have. Once the GA have a way of detecting a spider drive signature any spider drive ship is just another target.[/quote]



*nods* I pretty much agree with the spider drive. It is pretty useless in military situations. Can spider drive equipped ships enter hyperspace or is the spider drive strictly a sub-light drive?
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:42 am

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Zakharra wrote: *nods* I pretty much agree with the spider drive. It is pretty useless in military situations. Can spider drive equipped ships enter hyperspace or is the spider drive strictly a sub-light drive?


Yes. RFC has said they can enter hyper and transit wormholes. They'd be pretty useless if they couldn't.

The MAlign doesn't agree with you about the utility in military situations, or they wouldn't be building a fleet of spider drive super-dreadnaughts.
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by Whitecold   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:02 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
Zakharra wrote: *nods* I pretty much agree with the spider drive. It is pretty useless in military situations. Can spider drive equipped ships enter hyperspace or is the spider drive strictly a sub-light drive?


Yes. RFC has said they can enter hyper and transit wormholes. They'd be pretty useless if they couldn't.

The MAlign doesn't agree with you about the utility in military situations, or they wouldn't be building a fleet of spider drive super-dreadnaughts.


The Lennies must have some unknown defensive systems to increase their survivability, assuming the MAling is not just wasting resources, and it would be boring if they would. Bubble sidewalls won't compensate for the lack of a wedge alone.
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by Zakharra   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:06 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
Zakharra wrote: *nods* I pretty much agree with the spider drive. It is pretty useless in military situations. Can spider drive equipped ships enter hyperspace or is the spider drive strictly a sub-light drive?


Yes. RFC has said they can enter hyper and transit wormholes. They'd be pretty useless if they couldn't.

The MAlign doesn't agree with you about the utility in military situations, or they wouldn't be building a fleet of spider drive super-dreadnaughts.



I'll have to reread the book again, but I thought the drones were spider drive equipped so they could sneak in so close without detection, but the ships that launched them were streak drive equipped.
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by crewdude48   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:12 pm

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Zakharra wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:[quote="Zakharra]
snip

and knowing the GA knows about that tech and has a scientist that worked on them, the GA's R&D will be furiously working on their own versions. The streak and spider drive warships aren't going to be as effective as the MAlign/RF hoped for.[/quote][/quote]

I agree regarding the streak drive, however; the only reason I see for the GA to develop a spider drive ship is so they can then develop technology to detect it. The spider drive ships are slow compared to impeller drive ships and their only advantage is the level of stealth the have. Once the GA have a way of detecting a spider drive signature any spider drive ship is just another target.[/quote][/quote]


*nods* I pretty much agree with the spider drive. It is pretty useless in military situations. Can spider drive equipped ships enter hyperspace or is the spider drive strictly a sub-light drive?[/quote]


Hmmm... Slower than a standard ship, useless in standard battle, best defense is stealth. Yep, no way the most powerful navy in the world would build attack subs. Err... I mean I "in the Honorverse would build spider drive ships."
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:54 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
If they use the Lenny Dets as backup to the RF's navy, that'll really flag who's behind things for anyone who's looking
Maybe. But there should be ways to use them where only bad luck would expose that they'd been there at all.

It's just that people who are in the RFs way tend to suffer a somewhat higher rate of unexplained losses than everyone else...


But you'd have to be careful, you don't want survivors escaping with sensor records that might point to invisible warships. (So maybe if you use them as a 2nd wing in a fleet flight you have them drop pods and big decoys, have the decoys bring up their wedges and appear to be where the missile launch came from. Now it's not spider ships, you just got suckered by someone with better than average conventional stealth.

(Just a first thought off the top of my head)
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Re: Core world vulnerability
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:58 pm

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Zakharra wrote: I'll have to reread the book again, but I thought the drones were spider drive equipped so they could sneak in so close without detection, but the ships that launched them were streak drive equipped.


The Streak Drive is just a hyper-generator on steroids. The Ghost class ships were Spider Drive ships and the Grazer Torpedoes were also Spider Drive equipped.

Remember the search for the "Hyper Ghost" conducted by a squadron of destroyers when the MAN ships first arrived? That "Hyper Ghost" was caused by a very slow downward translation from Hyper which implies that they were able to get into hyper in the first place, :)
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