Beowulf right to Leave the SL

namelessfly wrote:http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2012/tables/table_35_leos_fk_with_firearms_type_of_firearm_and_size_of_ammunition_2003-2012.xls

Try getting your facts straight rather than spewing propaganda.

n7axw wrote:I guess I am going to have to weigh in on the other side. I have no desire to deny constitutional rights.

As for the right to seceed, that is now settled, not with legal arguments but in blood at places like Gettysburg, Shiloh and so on. Consequently there is no right of sucession, whatever the framers might have intended to start with.

As for the gun arguments, ccould we please have some practical sense? No one, least of all me has any particular objection to guns in the possession of responsible people, but look at what we actually have:

1.criminal gangs in some our cities who actually outgun the police who are trying to apprehend them.

2.Deranged individuals who wander through college campuses and yes, even grade schools shooting kids...easy access to guns guaranteed.

3.people who live in dangerous neighborhoods afraid to let their children out to play for fear they will be shot.

Gang, the way we tolerate this crap is both outrageous and stupid to say nothing of morally reprehensible. On a personal level, I find it offensive when the pro-gun people talk like their right to bear arms is more important than my right to walk down the street without the fear of getting shot.

Don

How I feel about the matter is how I feel. No propaganda involved. I stand by my post.

Don

I will not rescind my apology, but your response certainly confirms my opinion that you do not allow objective facts to inform your opinions on the gun issue.

The propaganda that the police are outgunned by the criminal gangs is easily refuted by the very extensive, caliber specific data on homicides of police as well as the less specific type classifications in the FBI's SHRs. The caliber specific data in The Chicago Murder Analysis (which has become classified by the Chicago police because it was used to refute their hate mongering propaganda) also confirms that criminal gangs and drug dealers do not favor handguns that "outgun" the police.

In almost all major US cities, the extremely small number of homicides committed with rifles of any type are committed by police, not gang bangers and drug dealers. Many of these ostensibly "justifiable homicides" are extremely problematic. The City of Portland Police have become renown for shooting unarmed people in the back. It seems as if they have hired Uncle Fester of The Adams Family to be their firearms and tactics instructor. The myth that the police are outgunned by the criminals is an extremely useful distraction from excessive use of force by the police.

The "outgunned by the criminals" myth is also useful to distract attention from the abysmally low clearance and arrest rates of most police departments in the nation. Nationally; police faile to solve 2/3s of all homicides. In the most crime ravaged cities, police consistently fail to solve 3/4s of homicides. Clearance rates have failed to increase even as homicide rates have plummeted in recent years which has reduced their case load. We have a problem with murder in the US not because of guns but because the police have declared open season on law abiding citizens.

I for one refuse to forfeit any of my Constitutional rights including the 4th and 5th Amendments as well as the 2nd Amendment because our police have gone AWOL.

Getting back on topic, I think the gradual usurpation of the 2nd Amendment in the US illustrates the probable ease with which the Mandarins will be able toconvincethe Solly public that Beawulf has no right to secede in spite of the very clearly enumerated right in the SL Constitution. The propaganda tactics employed to justify this abrogation will no doubt be the same as the tactics employed on the gun issue.

Topic over.