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Solly Fleet Advancements

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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:35 pm

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I have been rereading Torch of Freedom. Mannerheim has one of the largest SDFs in the SL which includes at least one (and presume more) Dreadnought plus BC squadrons (one is sitting on the other side of the Torch Wormhole). The Admiral at Felix is having his officers think about tactics for dual drive missiles based on the "reports" of Manticore weapons and with the obvious heads up of the Alignment weapons plus ships in the pipeline.

Since this is an RF entity, they are going to be able to get their hands on Cataphatcts and other things and probably do enough engineering to make it look like they built out the tech from samples "acquired" from "somewhere". We are NOT given information about their industrial capasity but I am going to guess that they are capable of building at least the BCs and possibly up to SD if they worked at it. They would also be producing most if not all of the equipment for their ships and weapons.

MSDF would NOT be sharing their improvements with the SLN. They look to be both one of the sources of "conventional" ships for the big push against either SLN or various SL Member systems or Verge Systems that will need to be convinced that there will be more protection in the RF than going their own ways as the SL breaks down. It is also clear that this Admiral of MSDF expects to be part of his navy's (along with other Alignment pieces) part of the attack on the Haven Quadrant via the Torch Wormhole to make an end-run around the normal paths of access.

The SL as an whole isn't expected to last long enough to get any of the potential new equipment into production to make a difference. I would expect to see most of the advances come from places like Beowulf, Erwhon or the RF systems and None of them are sharing with the SLN
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:38 pm

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Lyonheart,

You are trying to be logical, even statistical, in this.

I see no evidence that DW allows such statistics to rule.
To the extent that he cares, he seems to be against them.

Any tries on our part to do anything, except observe what
he tells us and record it, are likely to lead us astray.

HTMap-addict, who *hates* to be astray

lyonheart wrote:[snip - htm]
I have posted many times my simple suggested breakdown of the ~600 SDF's with hyper warships, being more than willing to consider anyone else's yet I've never had a detailed alternative (IIRC) which surprises me greatly, such as why not continue the 2-1 ratio etc?

Here it is again:

300 with 5-6 hyper warships,
150 with 10-12 " "
75 with 25-50 " "
37 with 50-100 " "
19 with 100-200 " "
10 with 200-400 " "
9 with 400-800 " "

In response, RFC has stated no SDF has more than ~800 hyper warships, which explains the modified bottom limit, but its a fairly simple progression and I'm surprised better ones haven't come up in all these threads.

You can easily suggest your own SDF sizes of larger groupings around 30, 60 or 90; or 40 and 80 etc.

[snip - htm]

L

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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Garth 2   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:05 pm

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The SLN is basically a dead man walking, its the SDFs that the Grand Alliance have to worry about.

I would be amazed if some of the transtellers didn't own planets outright and in turn had some advanced warships at their disposal (after all they couldn't afford to have to many on the books so they would have to be the best they could build), not to mention all those overt and covert R&D projects they have been doing.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by SWM   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:18 pm

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Eagleeye wrote:How many of the Core worlds are near enough to earth to get to them in, say, 4 weeks max one-way, and without using wormholes? Is there a core world in Alpha or Proxima Centauri? In Sirius? In Barnard's Star? In Ross 248? And how are the relations between the Mandarins and these coreworlds or between these coreworlds themselves? Are they able to work together to overcome the technological gap between the GA and the SLN? Because any technological advancements the SLN can achieve in the near future must be developed, tested, produced and distributed either in the Solar System itself or in one of these near-earth Mandarin-friendly Core worlds.

The entire Core is within 4 weeks one-way travel by courier from Sol.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by n7axw   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:14 pm

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I have the impression that the Catapharat has a range of about 15 million klicks-somebody correct me if I am off here-- If so what is there to be so excited about when a MK 16 has a range of 30 million klicks + and a Mk 23 has a range of 60 ++ and Apollo at about 80 +++.

So what's so exciting about a catapharat??

In terms of tech, nobody's is in the same league as Manticore with the possible exception of MAlign with its streak and spider drives.

It is easy to forget that it took Manticore close to 40 years of pressurized research starting with Gram to come up with their present advantage. Even if the League had its act together, and even if we admit that knowing that something can be done is half the battle to doing it, they are not going to catch Manticore soon.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by kzt   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:20 pm

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It has a range of infinity. It all depends on how long you wait before lighting the second stage.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:45 pm

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kzt wrote:It has a range of infinity. It all depends on how long you wait before lighting the second stage.
Well (to nitpick) not infinity; given enough time particle impingement will blind it sensors and eventually toast the rest of it.

And long before that the ballistic phase would be lengthy enough that you'd risk an opponent maneuvering in such a way that the missile never passes within it's 2nd stage powered range of the target.

But like DDMs and MDMs it's practical effective range is more a matter of fire control latency than raw distance. A Cataphract is going to be slower than a Mk16 once it's going out far enough to need a significant ballistic phase. And while a lengthy ballistic coast will let it reach out to the continuous powered range of a Mk23 it's going to be a long enough flight it risks having it's launch platforms (and their fire control) shot out from behind it before it reaches a terminal attack point.

But yes, a SL fleet equipped with Cataphracts can exchange shots with a Mk23 equipped GA force. Just not all that effectively.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:37 pm

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n7axw wrote:I have the impression that the Catapharat has a range of about 15 million klicks-somebody correct me if I am off here-- If so what is there to be so excited about when a MK 16 has a range of 30 million klicks + and a Mk 23 has a range of 60 ++ and Apollo at about 80 +++.

So what's so exciting about a catapharat??


The nature of the final stage.

What we know of the Cataphracts:

Torch of Freedon
Chapter 58 wrote:
So they'd taken another approach as an intermediate step. The Cataphract was a rather basic concept, actually—they'd simply grafted what amounted to an entire counter-missile drive unit onto the end of a standard shipkiller. Coming up with an arrangement which let them cram that much impeller power and a worthwhile laser head into something they could fit onto the end of a standard missile had demanded quite a bit of ingenuity (and not a few basic compromises), but it had been a far easier task than duplicating a full scale multidrive missile would have been.

There were drawbacks, of course; there always were, and especially so in what had to be a compromise solution.
The weapon carried only half as many lasing rods as a standard laser head. Worse, the Cataphract was twenty percent longer than a standard missile of any given weight, which meant it would no longer fit into launch tubes which had been designed to handle the single-drive missile upon which it was based. The Cataphract-C, built around the SLN's Trebuchet capital missile, could be fired only out of one of the missile pods the MAN hadn't seen fit to offer Citizen Commodore Luff. The Cataphract-B, based on the Javelin missile intended for the League's battlecruisers and heavy cruisers, could be fired from a standard superdreadnought missile tube, but not by an Indefatigable or a Warlord-C. But Luff's battlecruisers could fire the Cataphract-A, based on the Spatha, the SLN's new-model destroyer and light cruiser shipkiller. His Mars-Cs could have, as well, but only the battlecruisers had been supplied with the new weapon, and even they carried only enough of them for a dozen full broadsides.

Compared to standard missiles of their size, their warheads were light, and the onboard seekers, ECM, and penetration aids which could be stuffed into such a size-restricted terminal bus were limited. But the weapon had a powered range from rest of almost 16.6 million kilometers, nobody had ever even imagined that it might exist . . . and Luff's fourteen battlecruisers mounted over eight hundred broadside missile tubes.


Adm Roszak walked into the Cataphract-B's range which made them dangerous. The speed of the "sprint stage" gave his defenses the most problems.

The only time we've seen the Cataphract-C is when Adm Filareta's fleet flushed their pods. I don't recall that range information or performance figures were given, but it's probably there.

The C model should be longer legged than the A and B models the PNE used. Still far short of Current GA missiles, but very dangerous nonetheless -- especially when first encountered; Maya sector hasn't shared details with the GA.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by kzt   » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:04 am

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For some reason everybody's SDM missiles had the same effective range until recently. So I'd guess the performance of the A, B and C are similar. Logically a CM should be able to accelerate a really big missile less then a small missile, but I'm not sure how much that matters with wedges etc.

If you put a CM on the extended range missiles that might be interesting.
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Re: Solly Fleet Advancements
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:42 am

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kzt wrote:Logically a CM should be able to accelerate a really big missile less then a small missile, but I'm not sure how much that matters with wedges etc.


My impression was that the Sprint Stage separated from the bigger missile section before accelerating. Essentially the finial stage is just a CM with a ship killer warhead; sort of like an up-gunned Viper.

kzt wrote:If you put a CM on the extended range missiles that might be interesting.


I think it is probably being considered somewhere, but I think size would quickly get unmanageable -- As RFC pointed out in one of the pearls, "Smaller missile," is not the same thing as "Small Missile." CMs run around 15-20 tons each.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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