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SLN Future

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Re: SLN Future
Post by tlb   » Mon May 18, 2020 8:25 pm

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kzt wrote:No, a significant percentage of the planets controlled by OFS got there because they proved unable to run their system successfully. IIRC, at least two of the systems that had viewpoint characters both felt that OFS control had been a necessary evil at the time. One because their government proved unable to protect the planet. I forget the other, but I vaguely remember it had to do with some sort of genocidal political dispute on the planet.

Was the one story about the disease spread by a pest in the Czech settled world?
That other one was the planet where the governor tried to quarantine the Manticoran merchantmen. I believe the original dispute was over fishing rights, but it escalated to almost a nuclear exchange.

However that does not mean the majority were unable to successfully run their systems; we might never know how many were taken by OFS manipulations (just as the Talbot Quadrant was afraid would happen to them). Perhaps there will be a Solarian equivalent to House of Steel at some point.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon May 18, 2020 9:29 pm

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kzt wrote:No, a significant percentage of the planets controlled by OFS got there because they proved unable to run their system successfully. IIRC, at least two of the systems that had viewpoint characters both felt that OFS control had been a necessary evil at the time. One because their government proved unable to protect the planet. I forget the other, but I vaguely remember it had to do with some sort of genocidal political dispute on the planet.


We don't know how widespread that is. If the proportion holds, it could be bad. But how do we know those weren't Case Buccaneer or similar OFS operations behind the scenes?

Either way, those were long processes and one of them involved actually calling someone for help. It's not like the FF was patrolling and chanced upon pirates in the act of piracy, like the RMN and IAN frequently did in Silesia or Terekhov did in Nuncio. If they can call OFS for help, they can call some other entity too: either the GA or some regional ally of theirs.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by Sigs   » Mon May 18, 2020 10:10 pm

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kzt wrote:No, a significant percentage of the planets controlled by OFS got there because they proved unable to run their system successfully. IIRC, at least two of the systems that had viewpoint characters both felt that OFS control had been a necessary evil at the time. One because their government proved unable to protect the planet. I forget the other, but I vaguely remember it had to do with some sort of genocidal political dispute on the planet.

Did they really? Or did FS start off good with a few dozen systems and then started to slowly expand by screwing with the system governments? Could it be the majority of systems were chugging along and then in comes FF and their goons the Gendarmerie to f shit up? Why did Talbott willingly join the SEM? Was it because they couldn't govern themselves or was it because they were a few years to a couple of decades from becoming a victim to Frontier Security in need of protection? And what are the chances that Talbott is the only area of the verge with a bunch of poor systems that still managed to keep their area stable? Could it be that there are other area of the Verge where the GA could more or less walk in, help them form an alliance of one form or another, build up their forces and use them to stabilize their region?
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Re: SLN Future
Post by Sigs   » Mon May 18, 2020 10:23 pm

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There could be dozens or hundreds or even thousands of verge systems that have navies of their own, anywhere from NSF's 11 LAC's to the RMSN's 5 CA's 8 CL's, 19 DD's and several dozen LAC's. I doubt it was only these 16 systems in Talbott that had any form of navy from LAC's to cruisers and I doubt that Monica was the only SLN client state with a substantial force of its own. And then there would be those that were far enough outside of League space to not be a target yet and they could have local forces, I doubt that FF managed to disarm every one of the verge's navies except for NEw Tuscany, Monica and the 16 systems in Talbott and the Zunker Space Navy, chances are like I mentioned above that there are hundreds of systems with an already existing navy, and there would be dozens of systems like Monica with a substantial Navy for the verge that would be willing to assist the GA to avoid having their navy turn to dust. So all the GA has to do is use those nations with already existing navies and the most promising of the protectorates ad verge systems build from there.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by kzt   » Mon May 18, 2020 11:40 pm

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No, those guys with big navies have plans. Plans for how to use those navies, even if those naves are sneered at by 'real navies' for having obsolete ships etc. Plans that their neighbors who depended on the FF for security are likely to not appreciate. Sucks to be them, but facts on the ground are important, and time is not on the side of people who squander it.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue May 19, 2020 12:24 am

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kzt wrote:No, those guys with big navies have plans. Plans for how to use those navies, even if those naves are sneered at by 'real navies' for having obsolete ships etc. Plans that their neighbors who depended on the FF for security are likely to not appreciate. Sucks to be them, but facts on the ground are important, and time is not on the side of people who squander it.


Anyone with a big enough navy (say, a BC) can be monitored. Make a move against your neighbours and you lose said navy.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by Sigs   » Tue May 19, 2020 1:12 am

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kzt wrote:No, those guys with big navies have plans. Plans for how to use those navies, even if those naves are sneered at by 'real navies' for having obsolete ships etc. Plans that their neighbors who depended on the FF for security are likely to not appreciate. Sucks to be them, but facts on the ground are important, and time is not on the side of people who squander it.


And the GA has a bunch of obsolete SD's that can be send out on a goodwill tour of the verge, a squadron or two of SD's for a few days visit with a reminder that the next visit by SD's will be to trash their industry and destroy their navy. The GA just trashed thousands of years worth of industry in the Solarian League's Capital, I don't think President For life Smith is really going to doubt their resolve, and if someone does doubt their resolve, the first such nation that the GA visits after the warning was give will quickly dispel those beliefs.

Make it clear to those nations that they have 3 option:
1) Work with the GA
2) Keep to themselves in their systems
3) or be used as target practice by the GA

I doubt anyone would really miss the fact that the GA just wreaked close to 800 SLN SD's along with the entire industry of Sol which happened to be the center of the SL and guarded by the SLN which would be in many cases 10-15 thousand times bigger tonnage wise and probably millions of times more powerful if firepower is counter, so if the SLN cannot stand up to the GA how many verge systems will try?


A visit by a squadron of GA SD's would scare any verge nation into submission no matter how devious their plans might be especially since their power was the SLN, knowing that if they are in trouble FF would be there to bail them out. Which is no longer the case, if they behaved for FF, they will behave for the GA especially if the GA doesn't take crap from anyone.

So no, I don't think that the GA would be particularly troubled by any of them, if any of them try to do something to their neighbours after an clear and concise warning, then the GA SD squadron pays them a visit and destroys their navy and occupies their industrial infrastructure. The potential for change in government might make most dictators compliant.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by kzt   » Tue May 19, 2020 1:38 am

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They can't man them, and they can't refit their old SDs. Which operate in squadrons, and require escorts. And there are many thousands of verge system, many months of travel from Manticore, much less Haven. So yeah, if you break the entire RMN up into penny packets and send them months away from Manticore you could probably do this. Once. Hope nothing else come up during that year where it might be useful to have a Navy.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by Sigs   » Tue May 19, 2020 2:20 am

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kzt wrote:They can't man them, and they can't refit their old SDs. Which operate in squadrons, and require escorts. And there are many thousands of verge system, many months of travel from Manticore, much less Haven. So yeah, if you break the entire RMN up into penny packets and send them months away from Manticore you could probably do this. Once. Hope nothing else come up during that year where it might be useful to have a Navy.


Who needs to refit an SD when the system in question will have nothing that can hurt them let alone a division or a squadron? So now there are thousands of verge systems with substantial fleets? Hey look at that, things are looking up for the GA already, they don't need to do anti piracy.

They send SD's as a message to the system that the SLN used as hired muscle, I doubt they will launch an offensive immediately and if they do The GA can go and settle it at some point. You send a display of overwhelming force to those who you deem to be a threat AKA SLN hired muscle like Monica, and the rest get the message through a DB or a couple of CA's if the system is affluent enough.


Besides the GA holds most of the major and a lot of the minor WH, they can get from one side of the League to the other pretty quickly. They don't need to send all that many task forces, as there may be a few dozen systems that were client states of Frontier Security. I doubt anyone's first reaction would be to invade their neighbours once Frontier Fleet leaves as they would have to figure out what is going on first and if the GA is taking the place of FF or not.
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Re: SLN Future
Post by kzt   » Tue May 19, 2020 4:16 am

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Umm, because they shut them down in have them in a parking orbit. They need a shipyard to bring them back into operation. And there are none.

OH, and I'd bet the magazines were emptied when they were parked, and then someone blew up the ammunition stockpiles of old SDM SD missiles, along with all the other stockpiled missiles, a little while ago. So no missiles.

So sure. You could decommission five modern SD(P) to man an old obsolete SD. If you had a shipyard to bring them back into service or missiles with which to arm them. Of which you have none. But since it's a dumb idea to shut down five modern ships to man one obsolete ship, and the RMN apparently can't recruit more people because Economy! and Reasons!, no I don't think they will even if they could overcome these issues.
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