Information I'd love to know

In the past Manticore was a backwater neobarb locale.

Now, 1921+, the junctions likely run 22 hours a day. A junction typically takes depending on weight size of ship, a couple minutes to recover to slip ships in, less for smaller ships 3 or so minutes for SD or Freighter large, sized ships. 32 or so SD could mass transition but would disable the terminus for 17 or so hours.

One would persumenow 1921 PD the terminus is running a transition every 5 to 10 minutes. Enough time to send one way through, then the other way unless word is given that 40-80 SD(P) are coming through. Likely the last ship through would send a message. Let smaller convoys go through as one group up to terminus control typically.

In a 22 hour day you would likely have, at busy times, say 250 each way each day or so. Of course the terminus has different routes and dependant on how far apart the routes are you might multiply this by up to 7. 250 to 3,500 ships a Manticorian day.

Oh for the love of...

Can NO ONE do simple math in which to frame arguments?

Initial Velocity from launcher. This initial velocity "extra distance" is absurdly easy to calculate.

Additional Distance traveled due to initial velocity = V0 times time.

Missile flight of 180s with an acceleration of 45,000g will roughly have 8Mkm of range.

To be "significant", what extra range are we going to ascribe to the missile? From the books, RFC, carefully never ascribes how much distance this is. What he has always done is give the total distance the missile can travel. Of course if one back calculates, one finds out that in MWW writings he has an initial velocity from the launcher given of 0m/s! Go for it guys, calculate it with the known acceleration of the missiles in question and then punch in all of MWW's battle scenes. So, apparently, even DW does not see any significant increase in range due to launcher velocity. Lets do some simple math to see why this is. Shall we?

Lets calculate via power of 10's.

180s flight x powers of 10 initial velocity

1m/s = an additional 180m
1km/s V0 = 180km additional range out of a total of 8Mkm. Hardly significant and downright absurd.

10km/s V0 = 1800km additional still absurd as a criteria
100km/s V0 = 18,000km additional still insignificant
1000km/s V0 = 180,000km additional.

Finally a talking point. So range goes from 8Mkm to ~8.2Mkm is this significant? I would not quantify that as significant.

Lets go down a little rabbit trail. Closing ship velocity of typical engagements can easily attain greater closing velocities of 20,000km/s. Check Grayson battles; 1, 2, and 4. Check BoMa. I think I recall closing velocity of 30,000km/s or was it 40,000km/s? That 0.2Mkm vanishes in under 10s, or roughly 1/2 a salvo. 1/2 a salvo is not significant. Yes, your initial salvo will land first if everything else is equal, but not a deal breaker in light of the bonus being sought. Doubling a ships throw weight. When the extra range allows an entire extra salvo to be launched, then we are talking something significant.

So: Minimum of 1000km/s launch velocity is required in SDM land to even sniff a significant advantage. ERGO, initial velocity of a missile launcher is absurd against the reality of the closing velocity of a typical engagement. Get a large enough initial velocity would allow you to keep the range open. Of course change your missile drive times from 180s to 181s completely destroys this miniscule initial velocity.

Initial velocity as a cognizant realistic determining factor regarding missile engagements is a non starter.

PS. Per Shadow of Freedom. These launchers set the initial velocity thrown. So, for a double broadside, obviously you would not crank up the initial velocity very high. Just high enough to clear your wedge in a decent time frame allowing the missile to rotate 180 degrees and align itself with the other broadside creating a single wave.

wastedfly wrote:Oh for the love of...

Can NO ONE do simple math in which to frame arguments?

Initial Velocity from launcher. This initial velocity "extra distance" is absurdly easy to calculate.

Additional Distance traveled due to initial velocity = V0 times time.

Missile flight of 180s with an acceleration of 45,000g will roughly have 8Mkm of range.

To be "significant", what extra range are we going to ascribe to the missile? From the books, RFC, carefully never ascribes how much distance this is. What he has always done is give the total distance the missile can travel. Of course if one back calculates, one finds out that in MWW writings he has an initial velocity from the launcher given of 0m/s! Go for it guys, calculate it with the known acceleration of the missiles in question and then punch in all of MWW's battle scenes. So, apparently, even DW does not see any significant increase in range due to launcher velocity. Lets do some simple math to see why this is. Shall we?

Lets calculate via power of 10's.

180s flight x powers of 10 initial velocity

1m/s = an additional 180m
1km/s V0 = 180km additional range out of a total of 8Mkm. Hardly significant and downright absurd.

10km/s V0 = 1800km additional still absurd as a criteria
100km/s V0 = 18,000km additional still insignificant
1000km/s V0 = 180,000km additional.

Finally a talking point. So range goes from 8Mkm to ~8.2Mkm is this significant? I would not quantify that as significant.

Lets go down a little rabbit trail. Closing ship velocity of typical engagements can easily attain greater closing velocities of 20,000km/s. Check Grayson battles; 1, 2, and 4. Check BoMa. I think I recall closing velocity of 30,000km/s or was it 40,000km/s? That 0.2Mkm vanishes in under 10s, or roughly 1/2 a salvo. 1/2 a salvo is not significant. Yes, your initial salvo will land first if everything else is equal, but not a deal breaker in light of the bonus being sought. Doubling a ships throw weight. When the extra range allows an entire extra salvo to be launched, then we are talking something significant.

So: Minimum of 1000km/s launch velocity is required in SDM land to even sniff a significant advantage. ERGO, initial velocity of a missile launcher is absurd against the reality of the closing velocity of a typical engagement. Get a large enough initial velocity would allow you to keep the range open. Of course change your missile drive times from 180s to 181s completely destroys this miniscule initial velocity.

Initial velocity as a cognizant realistic determining factor regarding missile engagements is a non starter.

PS. Per Shadow of Freedom. These launchers set the initial velocity thrown. So, for a double broadside, obviously you would not crank up the initial velocity very high. Just high enough to clear your wedge in a decent time frame allowing the missile to rotate 180 degrees and align itself with the other broadside creating a single wave.

...this is simple math?

*gazes wistfully upward as it whooshes cheerfully over my head*

Carry on, then, gentlemen. I'll let you smart people get back to work.

roseandheather wrote:
...this is simple math?

*gazes wistfully upward as it whooshes cheerfully over my head*

Carry on, then, gentlemen. I'll let you smart people get back to work.

This is simple 8th grade math. Simple rate equations.

wastedfly wrote:

roseandheather wrote:
...this is simple math?

*gazes wistfully upward as it whooshes cheerfully over my head*

Carry on, then, gentlemen. I'll let you smart people get back to work.

This is simple 8th grade math. Simple rate equations.

In that case, I'm sure it made sense to me in the eighth grade and went bye-bye when I didn't need to use it any more.

I'll just trust that it will do what you gentlemen say it will and leave it at that, shall I?

roseandheather wrote:
In that case, I'm sure it made sense to me in the eighth grade and went bye-bye when I didn't need to use it any more.

I'll just trust that it will do what you gentlemen say it will and leave it at that, shall I?

Plenty of stuff I have "lost" as well. Try cursive writing for example. I can barely sign my name.

Lord Skimper wrote:In the past Manticore was a backwater neobarb locale.

Now, 1921+, the junctions likely run 22 hours a day. A junction typically takes depending on weight size of ship, a couple minutes to recover to slip ships in, less for smaller ships 3 or so minutes for SD or Freighter large, sized ships. 32 or so SD could mass transition but would disable the terminus for 17 or so hours.

One would persumenow 1921 PD the terminus is running a transition every 5 to 10 minutes. Enough time to send one way through, then the other way unless word is given that 40-80 SD(P) are coming through. Likely the last ship through would send a message. Let smaller convoys go through as one group up to terminus control typically.

In a 22 hour day you would likely have, at busy times, say 250 each way each day or so. Of course the terminus has different routes and dependant on how far apart the routes are you might multiply this by up to 7. 250 to 3,500 ships a Manticorian day.

Thanks for the estimate Lord Skimper. I like to think about these things even though they really have no bearing on story.

I think the arrival and departure lanes are non-blocking.

kzt wrote:I think the arrival and departure lanes are non-blocking.

While I can't remember which book it is in, after the discovery of the Lynx lobe of the junction, there is mention of 14 traffic lanes:7 inbound and 7 outbound.

And in At All Costs, there are a couple of hundred ships of all sizes waiting for transit clearance.

Anyone else want a little story with Adrienne Warshawski as the main character? I've always wanted to "meet" her given her enormous importance to the Honorverse.