WAR ROOM

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Jonathan_S wrote:I assumed you were using sensor ghost the same way the book did, its the signal caused by the spider ships slipping (slowely) out of hyper into n-space.
That places physical limits on what the MAlign can do - the hyper limit is more than 30 minutes time from any habitable planet (at least by an vaguely stealthy projectile). I'm on the road and can't conveniently calculate the ballistic attack time on a full up 3 drive MDM. But that's hardly a stealthy attack or one you necessarily need wedges to deal with..:

But if the spider ship sneaks into the system without anybody seeing the sensor ghost then your warning time is gone and you can't count on seeing anything before the graser torp hits you.

Thanks a mil. I suppose I should reread the "OB" attack. It doesn't seem like it was that long before the sensor ghost and the attack. Albeit elapsed time often gets distorted in the excitement of an attack.

I suppose I should also mention that I'm assuming that the missiles will be stealthy.[/quote]


Yes,so am I. And also assuming that every sensor ghost will trigger an automatic full active sensor search system wide. I haven't read the thread on the Detweiller class, so I can't speculate on speculation on their capabilities, but I don't think they would plan on hypering into a squadron of ... well anything.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks a mil. I suppose I should reread the "OB" attack. It doesn't seem like it was that long before the sensor ghost and the attack. Albeit elapsed time often gets distorted in the excitement of an attack.

I suppose I should also mention that I'm assuming that the missiles will be stealthy.

There were literally months between the emergence ghost at > a light month out and the launching of the weapons, then more months before the missiles started their attack runs. The Sharks had spent months running up to .2c before launching their weapons and vacating the system- they never got closer to the system than a few light weeks from the hyper limit.

So much time elapsed between the beginning and end of the OB raid, that the emergence ghost and the attack runs were in the 2nd half of 2 different books.

Whaaa

Do I need to fully reread the Oyster Bay attack? I'm thinking yes!

Thanks!

I also remember a glitch the Sharks had in the deployment. It took something like hours to deploy? IIRC, that was a function of the jury rigged launcher. Which, of course, I'm wondering if that had something to do with launching so far out. With that sort of long range hitting power, doesn't that in itself bespeak of a very capable missile?

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:There were literally months between the emergence ghost at > a light month out and the launching of the weapons, then more months before the missiles started their attack runs. The Sharks had spent months running up to .2c before launching their weapons and vacating the system- they never got closer to the system than a few light weeks from the hyper limit.

So much time elapsed between the beginning and end of the OB raid, that the emergence ghost and the attack runs were in the 2nd half of 2 different books.

Whaaa

Do I need to fully reread the Oyster Bay attack? I'm thinking yes!

Thanks!

I also remember a glitch the Sharks had in the deployment. It took something like hours to deploy? IIRC, that was a function of the jury rigged launcher. Which, of course, I'm wondering if that had something to do with launching so far out. With that sort of long range hitting power, doesn't that in itself bespeak of a very capable missile?

Might be a good idea to reread OB. It's spread around enough that it's easy to lose track.

The Sharks made a low velocity group jump out of hyper light months out, accelerated towards Manticore and dumped their Cataphract pods and graser torps then jumped back into hyper long before the weapons hit.
But the Ghost ships were inserted via the cold gas ejection from a freighter and they snuck deep in system to scout the targets and provide targeting info. There were also super stealthy fire control relays (did the ghosts drop those?). Those relays took control of the pods and torps and controlled their attacks.

So the Cataphract missiles had nothing special in the way of capabilities; though the pods had extra rad shielding to survive the long coast into the heart of the Manticore system. The graser torps are described as having quite capable onboard attack capavilites, but those were really not much used in OB due to the presence of in-system manned units and fire control hardware.

The MA can't see in the dark, it just had very stealthy scout ships (the Ghosts) that took a long time to map the possible targets in the Manticore and Grayson systems starting with the really high visibility ones of the 3 major Manticore space stations and the ACTIVE disbused shipyards.
Manticore and the GA can't yet detect the spider drive but they are working on the problem. It hurts that the best they have to work with are whatever survived of sensor readings taken before the GTs started hitting things like the major stations.

The Aldermani may be "neutral" as far as the SL is concerned (presumeing that the SLN 1) "knows" that the Aldermani are formaly NOT in the GA as opposed to keeping thime listed as an allied party from the Haven War). That does not quite mean that they couldn't be selling Manticore at least pods with the AN equivelnt of Manti missles from the last point they were formal allies. Depending on when that last tec transfer was made and IF the AN missiles can be controled using RMN commands (and approved AN software patches to let that happen).

So, just where is the infrastructure rebuilding in terms of progress and what weapons and critical spair parts production lines are in or about to be in production?

Brigade XO wrote:The Aldermani may be "neutral" as far as the SL is concerned (presumeing that the SLN 1) "knows" that the Aldermani are formaly NOT in the GA as opposed to keeping thime listed as an allied party from the Haven War). That does not quite mean that they couldn't be selling Manticore at least pods with the AN equivelnt of Manti missles from the last point they were formal allies. Depending on when that last tec transfer was made and IF the AN missiles can be controled using RMN commands (and approved AN software patches to let that happen).

Per David, when I asked him about this at Honorcon, the Andies did not have any production capabilities for the Mk23. Immedately after the attack they got full plans, technical data packages and a contact team of Mk23 experts to help them start a production line.

If she were caught in a system alone defending prime real estate, what is the most that a CLAC (its contingency of LACs) could hope to withstand of SLN design?

Just got my butt whipped by my niece in chess. Thoroughly trounced. Her Nimzo-Indian Defense is treacherous. I tried throwing rooks at her. Lost them both.

They had no business loitering around in enemy territory against someone like my niece. But against the SLN, can I get away with it?

I loosely associate rooks with CLACs. Long range fire power that you must be careful with.

cthia wrote:If she were caught in a system alone defending prime real estate, what is the most that a CLAC (its contingency of LACs) could hope to withstand of SLN design?

Just got my butt whipped by my niece in chess. Thoroughly trounced. Her Nimzo-Indian Defense is treacherous. I tried throwing rooks at her. Lost them both.

They had no business loitering around in enemy territory against someone like my niece. But against the SLN, can I get away with it?

I loosely associate rooks with CLACs. Long range fire power that you must be careful with.

Well, a CLAC itself as the long range missile firepower of a DN, and more accel than a DD, so it can outrun anything the SLN tries to catch her with. If it has pods available, it can probably tow ~300, and can probably throw salvos of ~200 missiles (1600 Apollo attack missiles), so even with old missiles, it can probably mission kill a SLN SD every salvo. So I'd say a CLAC itself can kill ~10-15 SDs easy.

Ferret/shrike missiles and Vipers will only scratch the armor on a SD, even an SLN ship. However, the Shrike has an updated grav lens in it's bow wall, upgrading the Graser to be able to strike SD scale armor and sidewalls. So if the wing is heavy on Shrikes, their attack will probably be a repeat of Hancock station, so another 16 - 20 SDs will probably fall to their fire, at the cost of most of the wing.

So with a full pod load and no other assets, I'd say 25-35 dead SDs, easy.

cthia wrote:

WeirdlyWired wrote:One thing they might do, since it only takes 30 minutes to get the wedge up from a cold start is put wedges up with any ghost footprint. That way nothing is going to come in and catch the fleet with wedges down and avoids having even some wedges up permanently.

30 minutes is a long time if these things have a subs long range hitting power. Which I suspect they will. In submarine warfare, the subs got in and got out. They hit from as far a range as possible to ensure survivability. The TDC (torpedo targeting computer) allowed the US subs to do so. They'd target from 1000 yds.

Doesn't textev mention ghosts caused from other non corporeal sources?


I wouldn't recommend the MAlign to give the Manties a taste of their own medicine, but what Honor did to the Peeps during Operation Cutworm hypering in and out of systems for weeks to tire them out is interesting.

Actually most of the best submarine captains RN KM IJN and USN got in as close as possible Dick O'Kane the highest scoring US ace fired his torpedoes at ranges between 500-600 yds. And German U-boat skippers would often get inside convoys where ranges were often less than 300 yds.

cthia wrote:An Aside:
Did Haven take a big risk sending away that much of Capital Fleet? I wonder if the MAlign had been on the ball if they could have exploited that fact?

I doubt that they took a big risk as they have been at war with a determined foe for close to 20 years and preparing for it much longer. Chances are that their fixed defences alone are a very tough nut to crack especially for the SLN if not outright impossible for the SLN. And even though 2/3 are gone it still leaves over 100 SD(P)'s at home.

As for the MA? There wouldent be any time for them to move in and get anything set up. No one would have guessed that Haven and Manticore would bury the hatchet and make peace so even if the MA had the ships and resources to dispatch to attack Haven, they would not have the time to do anything of the sort before a good chunk of the fleet makes it back home.

As for the Grand Fleet, at the moment Haven represents a good chunk of the Allied wall so I doubt they would withdraw all of their units, likely they recalled any nodal forces and rebuild Capital Fleet from there. As the war is shaping they don't have the luxury of not having the ships they need ready should any opportunity arise so having the Grand fleet split by tens of light years might be a bad idea because any opportunity comes up by the time they consolidate a force of any kind it would be too late. Plus if I remember correctly, there were ~200 SD(P)'s protecting the Beowulf Terminus and I doubt they are Manticoran or Grayson units as that seems to be a good % of their total fleet unless those SD's are old style wallers.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:If she were caught in a system alone defending prime real estate, what is the most that a CLAC (its contingency of LACs) could hope to withstand of SLN design?

Just got my butt whipped by my niece in chess. Thoroughly trounced. Her Nimzo-Indian Defense is treacherous. I tried throwing rooks at her. Lost them both.

They had no business loitering around in enemy territory against someone like my niece. But against the SLN, can I get away with it?

I loosely associate rooks with CLACs. Long range fire power that you must be careful with.

Well, a CLAC itself as the long range missile firepower of a DN, and more accel than a DD, so it can outrun anything the SLN tries to catch her with. If it has pods available, it can probably tow ~300, and can probably throw salvos of ~200 missiles (1600 Apollo attack missiles), so even with old missiles, it can probably mission kill a SLN SD every salvo. So I'd say a CLAC itself can kill ~10-15 SDs easy.

Ferret/shrike missiles and Vipers will only scratch the armor on a SD, even an SLN ship. However, the Shrike has an updated grav lens in it's bow wall, upgrading the Graser to be able to strike SD scale armor and sidewalls. So if the wing is heavy on Shrikes, their attack will probably be a repeat of Hancock station, so another 16 - 20 SDs will probably fall to their fire, at the cost of most of the wing.

So with a full pod load and no other assets, I'd say 25-35 dead SDs, easy.

Say what???

Then what the Clementine was McKeon doing at the Battle of Manticore? Quickly, someone exhume his body and SLAP him. Hard!

Wait!

"Clear!" "Doof!" "Clear!" "Doof!" "We got a pulse!"

"SLAP! SLAP! SLAP!" ... ... ...

Seriously. Henke has 20 CLACs. They alone can take out 2/3 of the SLN remaining OOB!

Assuming the estimated 750 remaining SDs.