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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by SWM
» Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:15 pm
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SWM
Posts: 5928
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I think I'll have a Coke for my bubbly.  --------------------------------------------
Librarian: The Original Search Engine |
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by n7axw
» Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:46 pm
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n7axw
Posts: 5997
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I'm going to weigh in with Harold on this one. Unlike the League, the Alignment has an active r&d program going on. And that is just one point. If RF suceeds in attracting new members, their economy and industrial capability will grow, expanding their capability to maintain and expand a technologically advanced navy.
In fact, the GA will also be expanding, probably not so much absorbing territories as expanding economicly which in turn expand both the size and responsibilities of its naval forces. It could well turn out to be a race to see who is able to achieve its objectives. Along with covert actions such as we have already seen, I would expect overt military action as RF's capability to carry that out grows. The punch line is this: The Alignment's use of covert action flows from necessity, not principle. Over time that will change as overt action becomes practical. Abnother thing that RFC hints at is the potential willingness and capacity of the Alignment to wage bio warfare. As far as I know, we haven't hashed this out here on the forums, but this has some truly nasty potential, bringing back one of the worst sides of old Earth's final war. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by Roguevictory
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:40 am
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Roguevictory
Posts: 421
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Are we sure they are ok with large scale bio-warfare? It seems like the use of bio-weapons would hurt their cause rather than help it. Their goal is do get the restrictions on genetic engineering that were widely imposed after Earth's Final War lifted. Wouldn't wide spread use of bio weapons remind people of the horrors of that war and thus have the opposite effect?
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by Weird Harold
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:12 am
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Weird Harold
Posts: 4478
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I can't say whether they are OK with large scale bio-warfare, but they're certainly OK with small scale bio-warfare in the form of DNA based Nano-tech "mind control." As Don says, there are only hints rather than hard evidence. .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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| Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by kzt
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:56 am
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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To fanatics, the ends justify any means. They also tend to be a lot better at the whole means part than the end part. “All right. I can see the broken eggs. Where’s this omelet of yours?”
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by Scuffles
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:29 am
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Scuffles
Posts: 86
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See I'm with SWM on this one. Open conflict as a means to dominating the galaxy is impractical at best and impossible at worst. There's just way too much galaxy out there to take, and if you do go about subduing everybody you're going to have the problem of keeping them subdued.
I'm not saying that the Alignment aren't perfectly happy to shoot people in the face, I'm just saying that they're also pretty smart and they have to recognize how bad it would be to have to pacify a hostile galaxy. If they go conquistador they're going to start finding blocks of individual systems - many of which are going to have an industrial base equal to what Manticore had - banding together to fend them off. That's not surmountable for the Alignment because they don't have the military tech advantage that the GA has and they can't stand off hundreds of battle fleet SDs, let alone Haven sector warships. The Alignment wants to position themselves by having large groups of systems sign up with them willingly. In an ideal galaxy (where they didn't accidentally create a massive alliance of sworn foes that just happens to be militarily capable enough to paste the navies of the entire galaxy at once) they wouldn't take a single system by force with the exception of any would-be warlords that can serve as examples of their goodness and peace-keeping skills. Trying to conquer the galaxy just guarantees that a large portion of it will shoot back at you. Uniting the galaxy under your banner is not the same thing. |
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by SWM
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:54 am
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SWM
Posts: 5928
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I'm not going to wade back into the discussion. But I'd like to point out that some people are talking about what the Alignment's plans were originally, and some are talking about what the Alignment will have to do now that Manticore is throwing their plan off. To keep the discussion productive, it will be important to distinguish these two, and not accidentally cross the arguments, like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
 I recommend that people make clear which situation they are discussing in each post, to prevent accidental confusion (combustion?).--------------------------------------------
Librarian: The Original Search Engine |
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by drothgery
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:38 am
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drothgery
Posts: 2025
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And I really wouldn't be all that surprised if there's a Rob Pierre or an Esther McQueen in the Alignment hierarchy somewhere to take its resources and do something its founders never intended, either. |
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by Weird Harold
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:09 pm
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Weird Harold
Posts: 4478
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You're correct that turning conquistador as a primary means of conquering the galaxy isn't a very practical idea. However, the MAlign will eventually have to resort to military conquest to wrap up the loose ends. They won't have to, nor are they planning to, militarily conquer more than a small fraction of human occupied systems. A lot of the systems they conquer militarily will be "rescues from Warlords" or similar situations where they are seen as liberators. The MAlign has always planned to resort to military force at some point. The Grand Alliance just means they're going to have to resort to military conquest sooner and for a larger percentage of the galaxy than originally planned for. .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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| Re: Mesa is the boogy man it wasn't meant to be | |
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by Hutch
» Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:57 pm
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Hutch
Posts: 1831
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Well, I come down firmly....in the middle.
  While I agreed the breakup and resulting chaos will drive many ex-SL systems to associate with the Renaissance Factor (in lieu of those dangerour neo-barbs from 'out there'. Include in that subtle actions by the MAlignment on the many SL worlds that they have infiltrated--not to the depth of the RF, mind you, but they have had centuries to work in and corrupt SL systems. It is also indisputable that the RF must be able to defend and protect those systems, along with their own, from Warlords and any remmant of the ISLN that might try to oppose them. I imagine we'll begin seeing just how powerful those SDF's are by the next book. The Lenny Det's and other Darius projects were originally for the 'next phase', IMHO--to impose on a now (relatively) peaceful galaxy the vision of the MAlignment. There will be opposition to this, based on humanity in general not being in favor of genetic modificaiton being imposed by their 'betters', and the Lenny Det's would have been there to crush any organized opposition to said imposition of the 'Great Genetic Evolution", in places like Maya or whatever was left of the PRH. Well, that has been blown to Hades, and I still think the smart thing for the MAlignment would be to lie low for the next 50 years, but somehow I don't think they are going to do that. As the European nations found in August 1914, once mobilization has started, it is a very hard train to stop. And the Detweiler Plan, once started, will assume a logic andmovement of it's own. So the Lenny Det's will not be used to enforce the will of the MALignment on a galaxy that is pretty much associated with the RF, but will have to be used to crush an already alert and very hostile opposition, who will also be actively recruiting new friends. Interesting times, indeed..... IMHO as always. YMMV. ***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5 |
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