Replying to the points made, as well as others made subsequent to the quoted posts:
Bluesqueak wrote:quite possibly a cat wrote:If the Mandarins can convince the other League worlds that Manticore violated the Epsilon Eridani Edict defeating Manticore will be a trivial task. Manticore is currently placing missiles made by Beowulf in their tubes and around their planets. It would be trivial for Beowulf to sabotage the missiles and obliterate the entire Manticorian navy. As Shannon would say "Oops".
If Manticore gets solidly pinned for violating the Edict they lose.
Well at least assuming the people don't execute their government for it, which I suspect is a distinct possibility. Especially seeing as how Manticore has been saved by the Edict. The Yawata strike would have killed vastly more people if not for the League's Edict protecting Manticore. Hell, what if those stealth ships with unknown origins come back and don't feel like following the Edict the second time around? They'll need to start a bit farther out, but they aren't going to need to scout the location of planets in round two. If Manticore shows the Edict is no longer enforced Manticore is starting down the apocalypse.
I think the main problem with the propaganda aspect is that people are trying to - as the old proverb goes - 'have their cake and eat it.'
Manticore isn't going to get solidly pinned for violating the Edict, because:
a) the Mandarins work for the League, which is now at war with Manticore.
b) The people they are trying to convince (such as Beowulf) know that the League itself, through OFS, has violated the Eridani Edict. Frontier Fleet, under OFS orders, have used KEWs to destroy civilian targets for terror purposes.
c)The people in the Verge and Talbott Quadrant (and on Beowulf) are more likely to regard Mesa and the League as a bunch of liars than they are Manticore.
d) The Manticorans themselves have experience of corrupt regimes accusing their naval heroes of things they didn't do, and tend to react by supporting said hero. See Echoes of Honor.
There's also e) They Didn't Do It.
So while the propaganda may work for those who wish to be convinced by it (see also Echoes of Honor), it won't work for those who don't. Basically, you're going to end up in the same place you were when the propaganda started - one side (the GA) will believe Manticore's version. The other side (Core World League) will believe (or pretend to believe) the Mandarins and Audrey Hanrahan.
The 'have your cake and eat it' principle is particularly in operation if the Mandarins or Hanrahan try and connect Zilwicki and Cachat to Manticore and Haven (rather than Torch, which had already declared war, and was thus entitled to send enemy agents behind the lines).
Because if they connect Zilwicki on the grounds that he's a half-pay officer (if he is) and Cachat on the grounds that he's a Special Officer (which he definitely is), we really are opening the entire 'jurisdiction' can of worms. Zilwicki's entitled to be tried by RMN court martial, not under civilian law at all and Cachat - well, I'm not entirely sure Haven has changed the law that says 'Special Officers do whatever the heck they think is necessary.'
The only other jurisdiction is Mesa, currently in the process of a) suffering a major revolt and b) being invaded. Admittedly Zilwicki and Cachat are on Mesa right now, but who's going to be running the court system?
I also can't help thinking that the MAlign have been too clever for their own good. That is, they've set Manticore up as the patsy for all those nuclear explosions, but anyone who examines the locations is going to very quickly find out that the RMN appears to be incredibly incompetent. Because the bombs went off at the wrong locations - they're not targeting tactical locations, and they also make no sense for terrorising the Mesan slaveholders.
Why on Mesa would a navy come in, guns blazing, and blow up an isolated
nature reserve? Especially since the Admiral concerned has a previous reputation for surgical strikes?
Actually, Mesa has ceased to exist as a jurisdiction governed by the local citizens. Mesa, upon surrender by the local authorities to the GA forces, immediately transitions to GA military territory governed under martial law of the GA forces, with the locals having no governing powers, similar to Meyers when Tenth Fleet visited there, until Mike had the Meyers King & Prime Minister set up an independent government.
Also, consider this quote: "History is written by the victors." Mesa (not to be confused with the Mesan Alignment) lost, and will no longer be writing anything (including propoganda), probably for a considerable while. When they do start writing history, it will most likely be by the Mesan group previously known as the seccies.
Another consideration: The Epsilani Eridani Edict does not apply to your own territory. No less of an authority than the Solarian League says so:
Shadow of Victory, Chapter 35 wrote:“If we don’t have ground troops, we’ll have to do it another way,” MacCrimmon interrupted. “From orbit.”
Osborne looked at him in shock. Surely he couldn’t mean…
“As the President of the Loomis System, I can request military assistance from the League on my own authority,” MacCrimmon went on in a flat, terrible voice. “Please inform Captain Venelli that I’m invoking the assistance clause of our agreement with the Office of Frontier Security. Secretary Boyle and Secretary MacQuarie will provide the targeting coordinates.”
* * *
“He can’t be serious.” Francine Venelli stared at the face on her com display. “That would…that would—”
“That would kill a hell of a lot of people,” Frinkelo Osborne filled in for her. “Unfortunately, it’s not our call.”
“Not our call?” Venelli glanced across her desk at Commander Bryson Neng, Hoplite’s executive officer. Then she looked back at Osborne. “Forgive me for pointing this out,” she said more than a little caustically, “but whether or not it’s our call, it’ll damned well be our KEWs!”
“I realize that, Captain.” Osborne closed his eyes for a moment, then shrugged, his expression unhappy. “Unfortunately, Frontier Security signed a standard assistance agreement with the MacMinns over thirty T-years ago. And under its terms, the President is entitled to ask for—and the League is obligated to provide—‘all required military assistance’ when the local government determines that it’s necessary.”
“Excuse me, Mr. Frinkelo,” Neng put in, “but this is exactly what the Eridani Edict is intended to prevent, and the Constitution obligates the League to enforce the Eridani Edict, not violate it!”
“I’d love to tell the locals that,” Osborne said bitterly. “But Attorney General MacGwyer’s already pointed out to me that the Eridani Edict specifically exempts planetary governments dealing with insurrection and civil war. And Secretary of War Boyle’s assured me that he’s prepared to sign off on the target list as constituting actual military objectives, not simply terror strikes.” He raised one palm-up hand into his com’s field of view in a gesture of helplessness. “So the bottom line is that they really can ‘request’ this.”
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.
Since Mesa surrendered, Mesa is GA occupied territory, under martial law. Therefore, whoever set off the nukes when the GA was in orbit were simply terrorists and mass murderers.
Also consider:
Changer of Worlds, From the Highlands wrote:She waved her arms. "Don't say it, Anton! I know the Navy officially suppresses the slave trade. Even does so in real life, now and again. Though not once since the war started. They're too preoccupied, they say."
Anton scowled even more deeply. Cathy waved her arms again. "All right, all right," she growled, "they are preoccupied with fighting the Peeps. But even before the war started, the only instance where the Navy ever hit the Mesan slave trade with a real hammer is when—"
Both of them broke into wide grins, now. The news of the incredible mass escape from the Peep prison planet of Hell was still fresh in everyone's mind.
"—when Harrington smashed up the depot on Casimir," she concluded. The countess snorted. "What was she, then? A measly lieutenant commander? God, I love impetuous youth!"
Anton nodded. "Yeah. Almost derailed her career before it even got started. Probably would have, if Courvoisier hadn't twisted some Conservative admirals' arms out of their sockets. And if—"
He gazed at her steadily. "—a certain young and impetuous left-wing countess hadn't given a blistering speech on the floor of the House of Lords, demanding to know why the first time a naval officer fully enforced the laws against the slave trade she wasn't getting a medal for it instead of carping criticism."
Cathy smiled. "It was a good speech, if I say so myself. Almost as good as the one that got me pitched out of the House of Lords entirely."
Anton snorted. Although membership in the Manticoran House of Lords was hereditary, not elective, the Lords did have the right under law to officially exclude one of its own members. But given the natural tendency of aristocrats to give full weight to lineage, it was very rarely done. To the best of Anton's knowledge, at the present moment there were no more than three nobles who had had their membership in the Lords revoked. One of them, the Earl of Seaview, had been expelled only after he was convicted in a court of law of gross personal crimes—which all the members of the Lords had long known were his vices, but had chosen to look the other way over. The other two were Honor Harrington and Catherine Montaigne, for having, each in her own way, deeply offended the precious sensibilities of Manticore's aristocracy.
Anton cleared his throat. "Actually, Cathy, that speech is why I'm here."
She paused in her jerky pacing and cocked her head. "Since when does a Crown Loyalist study the old speeches of someone who even aggravates Liberals and Progressives?"
He smiled. "Believe it or not, Cathy, that speech made quite a hit in the highlands. As it happens, one of our Gryphon yeomen was on trial at the time. Shot the local baron—eight times—for molesting his daughter. The prosecutor argued that a murderer is a murderer. The defense countered by quoting your speech."
"The part about 'one person's terrorist being another's freedom fighter,' I should imagine."
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.
Again remember that "History is written by the victors." The victors, not those on the losing side, get to judge who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. This has been true throughout human history, and no doubt will be continue to be true as long as humans are writing history. The Mesan authorities lost the revolution that Anton and Cachat supported. Therefore, Anton and Cachat are freedom fighters, not terrorists or murderers.
