What is the |value| of captured enemy systems?

cthia wrote:Strategic depth is also something hard to fathom in the Honorverse in the vicinity of wormholes and termini.* Plus, the distance between systems seems to negate some of the traditional benefits associated with strategic depth when the enemy can sneak around undetected, i.e., strategic depth is supposed to make it more difficult for an enemy to mount a significant attack at a single point because of the strategy of Defense in depth. That doesn't seem to be the case in the Honorverse. Though the ability to mount a quick response to an attack is still a benefit. As witnessed by the RMN's response to the Peeps seizing Candor and Minette.

Strategic depth seems more of a weapon of defense when an enemy can operate deep in your rear areas and seize two systems before you can even be alerted, much less respond.

Basilisk has a termini, which makes it impossible for me to make heads or tails out of why the RMNs initial support of her was so sketchy. It was as if Basilisk was hardly important to the SK, which seemed ridiculous in light of the fact that the Peeps held Trevor's Star at the time, and adding Basilisk to the pot would have greatly enhanced the Peep's strategic depth let alone the possibility of a two pronged invasion of Manticore. All which adds fuel to the thought that a system's absolute value isn't so straightforward in these neck of the woods.

After all, Pavel Young was holding Basilisk - a system with a fricking terminus - down.


*I realized after the fact that this sentiment was first thrown out by TFLYTSNBN. Thus, he drew first blood and should get the credit. Though I wholeheartedly agree with his sentiment.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Strategic depth is also something hard to fathom in the Honorverse in the vicinity of wormholes and termini.* Plus, the distance between systems seems to negate some of the traditional benefits associated with strategic depth when the enemy can sneak around undetected, i.e., strategic depth is supposed to make it more difficult for an enemy to mount a significant attack at a single point because of the strategy of Defense in depth. That doesn't seem to be the case in the Honorverse. Though the ability to mount a quick response to an attack is still a benefit. As witnessed by the RMN's response to the Peeps seizing Candor and Minette.

Strategic depth seems more of a weapon of defense when an enemy can operate deep in your rear areas and seize two systems before you can even be alerted, much less respond.

Basilisk has a termini, which makes it impossible for me to make heads or tails out of why the RMNs initial support of her was so sketchy. It was as if Basilisk was hardly important to the SK, which seemed ridiculous in light of the fact that the Peeps held Trevor's Star at the time, and adding Basilisk to the pot would have greatly enhanced the Peep's strategic depth let alone the possibility of a two pronged invasion of Manticore. All which adds fuel to the thought that a system's absolute value isn't so straightforward in these neck of the woods.

After all, Pavel Young was holding Basilisk - a system with a fricking terminus - down.


*I realized after the fact that this sentiment was first thrown out by TFLYTSNBN. Thus, he drew first blood and should get the credit. Though I wholeheartedly agree with his sentiment.

Though to be fair the the Admiralty the Basilisk situation was screwed up first and most by Manticoran domestic politics - driven largely by the same group of Lords who wanted to avoid any provocation of Haven.

(Also the Peeps seizing Basilisk would have been more of an economic hit than a military one. It's not well positioned to serve as a base to attack Haven, the advent of laser-heads and missile pods invalidated the basis of Manticore's pre-war war-games. Even simultanious transit down two termini of the Junction is very unlikely to breach it's defenses. So it's not actually a good way to attack Manticore either.

What Haven owning it would do is cut off the lucrative triangle trade from Gregor up through Silesia and back through Basilisk. It could potentially also serve as a base from which the Peep could attempt to raid any Manticoran commerce still attempting to operate in Silesia by way of Gregor.


Still, in hindsight I don't think it would have been a military disaster if Haven had managed to seize it. Which is a good thing since the civilian government refused to allow the type of military defenses and fleet it would take to hold the system against a serious attack.

cthia wrote:I must admit that it escaped me how the problem of intergalactic coordination of forces could've been solved by the Peeps to allow a two-pronged attack on the SK through Basilisk. The SLN used a Dispatch Boat. I suppose the same trick could be used in this case as well.

Is there a map with Beowulf listed?

Unless I'm overlooking her here and here.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:I must admit that it escaped me how the problem of intergalactic coordination of forces could've been solved by the Peeps to allow a two-pronged attack on the SK through Basilisk. The SLN used a Dispatch Boat. I suppose the same trick could be used in this case as well.

Is there a map with Beowulf listed?

Unless I'm overlooking her here and here.

Look for Sigma Draconis, Beowulf's star.

As for the two-prong attack, it wouldn't be difficult to arrange, as long as operational secrecy is maintained. Risky, yes, but all the Basilisk & Trevor's Star task forces have to do is transit at "midnight Nouveau Paris time, X date". Could be three, six, twelve months from 'now'.

The SLN only needed trickery with the dispatch boat because Filareta's fleet couldn't meet its planned schedule. In the hypothetical scenario posed, Haven would have pre-deployed assault forces at Basilisk and Trevor's Star, which could not be delayed in the way Filareta was.

In reality, Haven probably would never have launched such an attack, proceeding with a plan more like White Haven's conquest of Trevor's Star - first seizing the Junction by attacking through hyperspace and then summoning additional reinforcements.

Jonathan_S wrote:Still, in hindsight I don't think it would have been a military disaster if Haven had managed to seize it. Which is a good thing since the civilian government refused to allow the type of military defenses and fleet it would take to hold the system against a serious attack.

cthia wrote:I'm certain it can be calculated and it most probably is calculated. But it isn't milspec to the tune of galactic coordination of prongs of attack.