Spoiler(s) dangling threads

JohnRoth wrote:Manpower's headquarters was on Mesa. If Admirals Henke and Tourville had any sense, they immediately prevented Manpower from engaging in any off-planet operations of any variety, and left the question of what to do with on-planet operations until Jeremy X arrived, or said he wasn't going to. Or else turned the problem over to MCG to work out.

In any case, Manpower's off-planet operations no longer have contact with their headquarters, so they've got to reorganize if they want to survive as an organization.

And it isn't like there aren't other planets that have genetic slavery: Anton Zilwiki's cover in Cauldron of Ghosts was one such.

If they had any sense they would not have blown up all those space stations and bombed all of those random places on the planet including an uninhabited game preserve in the middle of an ocean. Seems to me they had much more on their plate at the moment than dropping a shuttle of marines to secure Manpower's facilities.

So a bunch of corporate mid-level managers just can't?

pappilon wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:Manpower's headquarters was on Mesa. If Admirals Henke and Tourville had any sense, they immediately prevented Manpower from engaging in any off-planet operations of any variety, and left the question of what to do with on-planet operations until Jeremy X arrived, or said he wasn't going to. Or else turned the problem over to MCG to work out.

In any case, Manpower's off-planet operations no longer have contact with their headquarters, so they've got to reorganize if they want to survive as an organization.

And it isn't like there aren't other planets that have genetic slavery: Anton Zilwiki's cover in Cauldron of Ghosts was one such.

If they had any sense they would not have blown up all those space stations and bombed all of those random places on the planet including an uninhabited game preserve in the middle of an ocean. Seems to me they had much more on their plate at the moment than dropping a shuttle of marines to secure Manpower's facilities.

I'm not sure who you mean by "they." Those explosions, including the "uninhabited island" where Albrecht Detweiler lived, were destroyed by the MAlign as their final "destroy all traces" coverup.

pappilon wrote:
So a bunch of corporate mid-level managers just can't?

Can't what?

As someone who's got experience with crime scenes involving explosives I find it unlikely the MAlign was able to destroy everything. Yes, a nuclear explosion will destroy most things. However, my experience has taught me that things always survive that the bad guys thought wouldn't.

I'm certain they'll find something.

JohnRoth wrote:[

I'm not sure who you mean by "they." Those explosions, including the "uninhabited island" where Albrecht Detweiler lived, were destroyed by the MAlign as their final "destroy all traces" coverup.


So a bunch of corporate mid-level managers just can't?

Can't what?[/quote]

First part, uh, yes what Albrecht blew up and The GA got blamed for. I'm sure and certain locating the corporate headquarters of Manpower Inc is not high on her priority list.

Second p[art ... be smart enough to grab whatever corporate assets they can before some smart admiral gets around to locking them out. Smart enough to realize homeworld would soon be invaded. I mean, sure, the Detweillers are soooo far ahead of everyone else mentally that no one else on Mesa ever thought Manticore would come calling, right?

Can't figure out how to come together and figure out the cryptic parts of the operations manual dealing with "Oh No Corporate did not get Cherwelled". Evnn Upper management had to think of that in their emergency operations section of the manuaal.

ywing14 wrote:As someone who's got experience with crime scenes involving explosives I find it unlikely the MAlign was able to destroy everything. Yes, a nuclear explosion will destroy most things. However, my experience has taught me that things always survive that the bad guys thought wouldn't.

I'm certain they'll find something.

1) They'll find all sorts of "very interesting" stuff. Maybe even, eventually, enough to almost prove The Onion actually did it. pretty sure they did not leave behind a laptop with the complete Houdin playbook on it.

2) Houdini was not a slap dash operation. It was long planned and long thought out. Going back to a discussion between Albrecht and Aldonna: " I don't like going off script especially at the end. Its too easy to miscalculate." Yet that's exactly what Albrecht did when he pushed Oyster Bay up before the Lenny Ds were finished. Of course he had valid reasons for hitting manticore and Grayson right after The Battle of Manticore. Who could see Elizabeth and Eloise burying the chainsaw Albrecht so carefullt stuck in their backs..

No one could predict that an undiscovered Manticoran wormhole would lead to Mesa's back door. Or the chain of events leading terekhov to Monica. Albrecht was acute enough to realize that Houdini had to be accelerated, not built from scratch.

They already mostly knew which physical targets had to be destroyed. All that remained to improvise were the targets covering the evacuation of their personnel, and those destroying the personnel they could not evacuate. And inn the end it still wasn't fast enough to totally evacuate everyone.

pappilon wrote:

ywing14 wrote:As someone who's got experience with crime scenes involving explosives I find it unlikely the MAlign was able to destroy everything. Yes, a nuclear explosion will destroy most things. However, my experience has taught me that things always survive that the bad guys thought wouldn't.

I'm certain they'll find something.

1) They'll find all sorts of "very interesting" stuff. Maybe even, eventually, enough to almost prove The Onion actually did it. pretty sure they did not leave behind a laptop with the complete Houdin playbook on it.

2) Houdini was not a slap dash operation. It was long planned and long thought out. Going back to a discussion between Albrecht and Aldonna: " I don't like going off script especially at the end. Its too easy to miscalculate." Yet that's exactly what Albrecht did when he pushed Oyster Bay up before the Lenny Ds were finished. Of course he had valid reasons for hitting manticore and Grayson right after The Battle of Manticore. Who could see Elizabeth and Eloise burying the chainsaw Albrecht so carefullt stuck in their backs..

No one could predict that an undiscovered Manticoran wormhole would lead to Mesa's back door. Or the chain of events leading terekhov to Monica. Albrecht was acute enough to realize that Houdini had to be accelerated, not built from scratch.

They already mostly knew which physical targets had to be destroyed. All that remained to improvise were the targets covering the evacuation of their personnel, and those destroying the personnel they could not evacuate. And inn the end it still wasn't fast enough to totally evacuate everyone.

I agree, it's unlikely that someone left behind a laptop. But you never know what people may have kept in diaries or accidently told to others. Things of that nature.

Personally I think the attacks on Manticore and Grayson were brilliant. Even though it ended up helping to bind the RoH and SEM together.

Just going through the list of casualties will be useful. They may have destroyed a ton of places, killed lots of people, and destroyed data. But I can foresee the GA doing similar data regression that Gaddis did in his investigation of the Solly establishment. You never know what'll turn up.

ywing14 wrote: I agree, it's unlikely that someone left behind a laptop. But you never know what people may have kept in diaries or accidently told to others. Things of that nature.

Pretty sure being under constant surveillance with threat of killing family deterred almost everyone from doing anything that blatant. I'm sure RFC will devise some clever way of revealing the Onion. Or not.

ywing14 wrote:Personally I think the attacks on Manticore and Grayson were brilliant. Even though it ended up helping to bind the RoH and SEM together.

Brilliant , well timed, flawlessly executed. And ultimately too smart by half. One might also call it a Phyrric Victory. It accomplished its tactical objective but failed miserably in its Strategic objective. Instead of destroying its 3 main enemies like dominoes, it united them, and woke the sleeping dragon as well.

ywing14 wrote:Just going through the list of casualties will be useful. They may have destroyed a ton of places, killed lots of people, and destroyed data. But I can foresee the GA doing similar data regression that Gaddis did in his investigation of the Solly establishment. You never know what'll turn up.

Yeah, that should keep Michelle and Lester tied down for a decade or two. Unless they're smart enough to turn everything over to Black Victor et cie and disappear over the hyper limit.

pappilon wrote:

ywing14 wrote: I agree, it's unlikely that someone left behind a laptop. But you never know what people may have kept in diaries or accidently told to others. Things of that nature.

Pretty sure being under constant surveillance with threat of killing family deterred almost everyone from doing anything that blatant. I'm sure RFC will devise some clever way of revealing the Onion. Or not.

ywing14 wrote:Personally I think the attacks on Manticore and Grayson were brilliant. Even though it ended up helping to bind the RoH and SEM together.

Brilliant , well timed, flawlessly executed. And ultimately too smart by half. One might also call it a Phyrric Victory. It accomplished its tactical objective but failed miserably in its Strategic objective. Instead of destroying its 3 main enemies like dominoes, it united them, and woke the sleeping dragon as well.

ywing14 wrote:Just going through the list of casualties will be useful. They may have destroyed a ton of places, killed lots of people, and destroyed data. But I can foresee the GA doing similar data regression that Gaddis did in his investigation of the Solly establishment. You never know what'll turn up.

Yeah, that should keep Michelle and Lester tied down for a decade or two. Unless they're smart enough to turn everything over to Black Victor et cie and disappear over the hyper limit.

There will probably be some people around who know more than the Dets thought they did. We've already seen Harahap knew a real lot. And treecats might be used in interrogations.

Also, some of the people taken off planet in Houdini might have live family left behind.

And, as we've seen in current Washington DC politics, a lot of things supposedly gone can be found again.

As for people running to escape:

Those from Mesa are almost certainly either gone already or dead.

From the rest of the League, they generally have the standard excuse of I was just following orders. The worst examples will be punished but not all that many. Remember that the number of major Nazi players punished was rather small, all things considered.

ldwechsler wrote:

There will probably be some people around who know more than the Dets thought they did. We've already seen Harahap knew a real lot. And treecats might be used in interrogations.

Also, some of the people taken off planet in Houdini might have live family left behind.

And, as we've seen in current Washington DC politics, a lot of things supposedly gone can be found again.

As for people running to escape:

Those from Mesa are almost certainly either gone already or dead.

From the rest of the League, they generally have the standard excuse of I was just following orders. The worst examples will be punished but not all that many. Remember that the number of major Nazi players punished was rather small, all things considered.

Nobody knows a real lot. Some thing may trigger memories that a new piece of information allows them to fit together, but that is not knowledge of The Onion, that is only what Harahap has, educated speculation.

And Yes we Know McBride is survived by his parents and sister. The one that got shot on the ship as they left the station ahead of the BSC is survived by her kids. That's why the Final Flourishwas so messy. All people know is that there were bunches of terror attacks and lots of bodies wil never be recovered, that their loved ones were supposed to be where and when the explosions occurred. Presumed dead with no anything except radioactive dust.

I'm not saying nothing will be found, just that a whole lot of not very much doesn't amount to a wealth of convincing evidence.

Certainly nothing pointing to Darius. Ok fine find a diary or a letter telling Family that, sorry, I abandoned you, I'm valuable and you are not. We valuable people left the planet. Do't know where we're going, don't know how we're getting there.

PS Don't cry for me, Argentina.

What does that prove? What information do you actually have that you didn't have before? It proves Anton Zilwicki's little algorithm was right. The GA was operating on an assumption that was proved right. rest is nonactionable data, and worthless at best.

pappilon wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:

There will probably be some people around who know more than the Dets thought they did. We've already seen Harahap knew a real lot. And treecats might be used in interrogations.

Also, some of the people taken off planet in Houdini might have live family left behind.

And, as we've seen in current Washington DC politics, a lot of things supposedly gone can be found again.

As for people running to escape:

Those from Mesa are almost certainly either gone already or dead.

From the rest of the League, they generally have the standard excuse of I was just following orders. The worst examples will be punished but not all that many. Remember that the number of major Nazi players punished was rather small, all things considered.

Nobody knows a real lot. Some thing may trigger memories that a new piece of information allows them to fit together, but that is not knowledge of The Onion, that is only what Harahap has, educated speculation.

And Yes we Know McBride is survived by his parents and sister. The one that got shot on the ship as they left the station ahead of the BSC is survived by her kids. That's why the Final Flourishwas so messy. All people know is that there were bunches of terror attacks and lots of bodies wil never be recovered, that their loved ones were supposed to be where and when the explosions occurred. Presumed dead with no anything except radioactive dust.

I'm not saying nothing will be found, just that a whole lot of not very much doesn't amount to a wealth of convincing evidence.

Certainly nothing pointing to Darius. Ok fine find a diary or a letter telling Family that, sorry, I abandoned you, I'm valuable and you are not. We valuable people left the planet. Do't know where we're going, don't know how we're getting there.

PS Don't cry for me, Argentina.

What does that prove? What information do you actually have that you didn't have before? It proves Anton Zilwicki's little algorithm was right. The GA was operating on an assumption that was proved right. rest is nonactionable data, and worthless at best.

We don't know if everyone showed up to the places where the nukes were set. There were a lot of people who originally were supposed to be on the Houdini list that got cut because they had to rush everything. A few of these people may have survived for no more mundane reasons than traffic or car trouble.