Implenting Case Lacoon I & II after Oyster Bay

There are more junctions and bridges in the League than any that have been named in this topic. The latest map I have shows, well, let's just say more than a couple, less than a lot.

namelessfly wrote:
However; keep in mind that wormhole termini are outside of steller gravity wells with essentially no hyperlimit. This is one situation where it is possible given extremely accurate navigation for SLN ships to engage RMN ships within energy range without having to withstand a long range missile engagement first.

One problem with this entire thesis --- there is a an area of space near the wormhole terminus that is effectively within a hyper limit --- the resonance zone. Parking a squadron of Medusa-As thirty five to fifty five million kilometers off the terminus and in the central line of the resonance zone gives the Medusas significant N-space depth to play with while still blocking the terminus.

Duckk wrote:There are more junctions and bridges in the League than any that have been named in this topic. The latest map I have shows, well, let's just say more than a couple, less than a lot.

Will you share an image or the location of the map you have?

Rook wrote:Will you share an image or the location of the map you have?

I can't, it's part of the material David gave me at Origins.

Star Knight wrote:

Forgiven wrote:So, yes, you can jump close enough to the wormhole termini to nullify missile range advantages.

Again, no you cant.
I doesnt matter whether or not you can jump right at the termini.
The RMN detachement wont be there.
Their ships will be hidden stationed somewhere else because Apollo can kill you from very far away.
The SLN can jump all it wants, chances are close to zero that they catch the Manticorans in energy range.

Forgiven wrote:Secondly, controlling just the junctions is far from optimal, you'll want to supply any fleet controlling the junction through the termini, possibly send raids and supply something else on the other side of wormholes as well. (Think Trevor's Star...)

It makes no difference.
If you want to supply your forces through a hostile termini you ll need a concoy to actually get to the termini in question.
If your escort can defend a supply convoy it can punch through a SLN detachment guarding a termini.

And of course there is the possibility of stationing a picket at the terminis so that you wont run into a nasty suprise.

A picket could be a nasty surprise indeed, but to conserve needed ships, why not put mostly automated defense stations with old pods and mines as junction defense. Call the stations trip wires that bloody SLN forces and alert forces to respond. Saves ships from penny packets, and allows concentration at manticore termeni.
These stations would be complimentary to the Civilian stations at each side. They would provide more powerful detectors to tell when ships are inbound, and are relatively low visibility for poltical sensibilities. After the two suicide runs by the SLN many systems may want to have even some old manty station as a flag in thier system saying who backs up the local government.
Trade and travel follow military/law enforcement provided law and order (i.e. infrastructure). This leads to more SEM protectorates and all the resources and manpower they provide. All that is left afterwards is a system for admitting protectorates to parliment and possibily sector governence if the area warrants it (Silesia, Talbot, etc). Allowing early citizenship to veterans cements bonds of affinity, friendship, communication, and solidarity; not to mention providing the crown a method to create merit based peerages.

tasos74 wrote: A picket could be a nasty surprise indeed, but to conserve needed ships, why not put mostly automated defense stations with old pods and mines as junction defense. Call the stations trip wires that bloody SLN forces and alert forces to respond. Saves ships from penny packets, and allows concentration at manticore termeni.
These stations would be complimentary to the Civilian stations at each side. They would provide more powerful detectors to tell when ships are inbound, and are relatively low visibility for poltical sensibilities. After the two suicide runs by the SLN many systems may want to have even some old manty station as a flag in thier system saying who backs up the local government.
Trade and travel follow military/law enforcement provided law and order (i.e. infrastructure). This leads to more SEM protectorates and all the resources and manpower they provide. All that is left afterwards is a system for admitting protectorates to parliment and possibily sector governence if the area warrants it (Silesia, Talbot, etc). Allowing early citizenship to veterans cements bonds of affinity, friendship, communication, and solidarity; not to mention providing the crown a method to create merit based peerages.

A defense that is stationary like the one you are suggesting has the same glaring problem that the Hades System Defense had in "In Enemy Hands". Any mobile fleet could move itself well away from the stations and shoot missiles at it with impunity. Even though the missiles will be burned out and ballistic by the time they get there, they will be moving as a significant percentage of c and the stations, pods, and mines cannot dodge them.

Any fleet coming through the wormhole would be dog meat, but if a fleet came to the system through regular hyperspace, the defenses would get trashed. You must have a mobile force to effectively defend a system or wormhole junction.

tasos74 said:
[/quote] These stations would be complimentary to the Civilian stations at each side. They would provide more powerful detectors to tell when ships are inbound, and are relatively low visibility for poltical sensibilities. After the two suicide runs by the SLN many systems may want to have even some old manty station as a flag in thier system saying who backs up the local government.
Trade and travel follow military/law enforcement provided law and order (i.e. infrastructure). This leads to more SEM protectorates and all the resources and manpower they provide. All that is left afterwards is a system for admitting protectorates to parliment and possibily sector governence if the area warrants it (Silesia, Talbot, etc). Allowing early citizenship to veterans cements bonds of affinity, friendship, communication, and solidarity; not to mention providing the crown a method to create merit based peerages.[/quote]

I don't think that's the purpose of Laocoon. While the Manties MIGHT be interested in admitting systems on the far side of the wormholes of the MANTICORAN Junction, I seriously doubt they're going to have any thought of bringing in any system NOT at the end of one of those wormholes. They might very well want to set up friendly regimes in such systems, but Laocoon is a wartime measure and I have to wonder how long it can be run even then. After the war, they are going to relinquish their positions in those systems.

Anyone get the feeling for "most SL shipping" to go through the Manticoran junction that there must be several wormholes near the ends of Hennessey, Beowulf, and Joshua? Otherwise how can "most" SL shipping go through their junction at all? Its not like SL shipping is going ot Matapan/Asegard, Andermani, Silesia, or Haven spheres of influence.

B

I haven't done my usual anal retentive number crunching on this. However; the incident where the survey cruiser from the Torch Wormhole was ambushed combined with how the junction defenses at Manticore were originally designed suggests that while it is possible to protect the terminae with SD(P)s or forts controlling missile pods, the most economical way to interdict a wormhole is to station forces at the junction within energy range of the wormhole so that they can simply vaporize the attacking force before they get their fecal matter aggregated. An alternative strategy would be to have light forces and fortifications deployed at the terminae to act as early warning sensors and trip wires that would be backed up by squadrons of APOLLO armed SD(P)s.

I'll certainly concede that Manticore's reserves of old style SDs would be superior to the SLNs SDs. However; how many of them got toasted during OB?

I'll also point out that there is no reason why an old style waller can't use its limited control links with APOLLO pods in non FTL mode as was done at Battle of Spindle. An old style SD throwing salvos of perhaps 40 APOLLO pods would be nothing to sneeze at. If APOLLO pods remain in such short supply, then it is likely that an attacker would get within energy range and SLN SDs are going to be even more appealing.

bafoote wrote:Anyone get the feeling for "most SL shipping" to go through the Manticoran junction that there must be several wormholes near the ends of Hennessey, Beowulf, and Joshua? Otherwise how can "most" SL shipping go through their junction at all? Its not like SL shipping is going ot Matapan/Asegard, Andermani, Silesia, or Haven spheres of influence.

B

Well, if you are getting exploited goods from anywhere in the northern half of the Verge to the Core, going through Manticore is the quickest, and if you are close to Beowulf, getting to the south east of the Core and those area is quickest through Manticore. Now with Lynx that adds nearly the entire west of the League also.

This does ignore any other wormholes that DW has been keeping secret. Some of them may be quicker.