SLN Ship improvement

Sigs wrote:

quite possibly a cat wrote:The Mandarins are working overtime to make the GA look like liberators not conquerors if the preview snippets are any indication. Although, Henke, Victor and Anton are working overtime to make the GA look like the worst biggest danger to galactic peace since the EE Edict was passed. Honestly, if the Mandarins had waited a few months before attacking the Manticore home system, Henke would have handed them the perfect tool to rally the League.

Where exactly is it that the Mandarins are working overtime to make the GA look like Liberators?

And how are Henke, Victor and Anton doing anything to make the GA look bad? I don't know if you misspoke or I missed a major shift in the plot.

I'm assuming the bit about the Mandarins is in reference to one of the recent snippets - sending naval forces to beat up a neutral world known to be friendly to Beowulf.

And I assume the bit about Henke, Victor and Anton refer to Henke's forces snapping up Meyers (sp?) and it's FF base, then doubling down by seizing Mesa (just in time to be blamed for nuclear bombardment). And Victor and Anton were directly indirectly responsible for McBride detonating the nuke under the Gamma (?) Center, directly responsible for detonating another nuke to cover their escape, and turning over yet another nuke to the unstable seccie who slaughtered all the innocent families at Green Pines.
All actions that are very easy to spin against Manticore and the GA.

It really all depends on exactly how the League breaks up; like the Austro-Hungarian Empire- into lots of little states, or like the Soviet Union- into one large central area and a bunch of peripheral ones. Or something in between. Either way, I'd expect most successors get local forces plus maybe parts of Frontier Fleet; Battle Fleet is much more centralized & it takes a large economy to support SD's.

Jonathan_S wrote:Where exactly is it that the Mandarins are working overtime to make the GA look like Liberators?

And how are Henke, Victor and Anton doing anything to make the GA look bad? I don't know if you misspoke or I missed a major shift in the plot.

I'm assuming the bit about the Mandarins is in reference to one of the recent snippets - sending naval forces to beat up a neutral world known to be friendly to Beowulf.

And I assume the bit about Henke, Victor and Anton refer to Henke's forces snapping up Meyers (sp?) and it's FF base, then doubling down by seizing Mesa (just in time to be blamed for nuclear bombardment). And Victor and Anton were directly indirectly responsible for McBride detonating the nuke under the Gamma (?) Center, directly responsible for detonating another nuke to cover their escape, and turning over yet another nuke to the unstable seccie who slaughtered all the innocent families at Green Pines.
All actions that are very easy to spin against Manticore and the GA.[/quote]

Manticore was getting blamed for the nukes going off on Mesa wether they were there or not.

Everything else would have come to pass even if they had not been on Mesa to participate in anyway with the bombings. One way or another the MA was playing the general public against the GA by committing atrocities and blaming them on the GA.

Basically anything the GA does will look bad to the League public except maybe doing nothing at all. Literally anything they do can be spun to make them look bad or if nothing else manufactured to make them look back. They could withdraw everyone and everything back to their home nations and they still will be blamed for a lot of things.

One bit of defense is available to the SLN. All they need is one tech witch of their own to recognize it. After the Battle of Thimble, IIRC, Sir MCPO Harkness mentioned that Halo could be pretty good if they used as a fleet defense net instead of for each individual ship. Would only need a little creative thinking, a few simulations and tweaks or rewrites of sections of code. It would probably come from FF, they seem to have a culture more amenable to non-conventional thinking.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:Not forgetting doesn't really change the reality that they will have more immediate concerns than Manticore to deal with. And that is finally the point.

The Weimar Republic has much more immediate concerns than France to deal with too. Remind me how that turned out?

The Weimar Republic was dealing with internal issues it was unable to overcome in no small measure due to the excessively punitive terms imposed by the victors following the war.

By way of contrast to this, Manticore's plan is going to be to seek friendly relations with the successor states rather than imposing punitive penalties.

The point I was making was that the successor states will probably be too concerned about dealing with hostile neighbors to preoccupy itself with Manticore. In some cases, at least, Manticore might be welcomed as an ally to help keep those neighbors in check. That is called balance of power.

Don

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I’m perfectly sure they won’t blame Manticore for screwing up their perfect neighborhood and firing them to build their own 600 SD(P) Navy.

kzt wrote:I’m perfectly sure they won’t blame Manticore for screwing up their perfect neighborhood and firing them to build their own 600 SD(P) Navy.

They won't, they'll blame Grayson and Haven as well...

pappilon wrote:One bit of defense is available to the SLN. All they need is one tech witch of their own to recognize it. After the Battle of Thimble, IIRC, Sir MCPO Harkness mentioned that Halo could be pretty good if they used as a fleet defense net instead of for each individual ship. Would only need a little creative thinking, a few simulations and tweaks or rewrites of sections of code. It would probably come from FF, they seem to have a culture more amenable to non-conventional thinking.

That is a real problem for the Sollies. The system is so corrupt that moving up is very difficult without connections. When we first met Shannon she was a young officer but still considered a tac witch.

She was still a relatively junior officer...I think perhaps a captain when she blew up the StateSec ships.

But then she was moved right to the top.

They don't have that in the League. They work against that. New ideas are put down quickly. We've seen how those who have accepted the new realities get treated.

Eventually things may change. But it won't be easy or probably very soon.

ldwechsler wrote:

pappilon wrote:One bit of defense is available to the SLN. All they need is one tech witch of their own to recognize it. After the Battle of Thimble, IIRC, Sir MCPO Harkness mentioned that Halo could be pretty good if they used as a fleet defense net instead of for each individual ship. Would only need a little creative thinking, a few simulations and tweaks or rewrites of sections of code. It would probably come from FF, they seem to have a culture more amenable to non-conventional thinking.

That is a real problem for the Sollies. The system is so corrupt that moving up is very difficult without connections. When we first met Shannon she was a young officer but still considered a tac witch.

She was still a relatively junior officer...I think perhaps a captain when she blew up the StateSec ships.

But then she was moved right to the top.

They don't have that in the League. They work against that. New ideas are put down quickly. We've seen how those who have accepted the new realities get treated.

Eventually things may change. But it won't be easy or probably very soon.

Yes I agree, especially WRT Battle Fleet. Just takes one good Frontier Fleet captain to pass the detailed and gamed suggestion of his little ATO LT up to his Group commander and a tiny, well not victory, but call it an escape because of it.

Not saying the probability is high. merely suggesting it is a simple improvement with ... possibilities.

ldwechsler wrote:

pappilon wrote:One bit of defense is available to the SLN. All they need is one tech witch of their own to recognize it. After the Battle of Thimble, IIRC, Sir MCPO Harkness mentioned that Halo could be pretty good if they used as a fleet defense net instead of for each individual ship. Would only need a little creative thinking, a few simulations and tweaks or rewrites of sections of code. It would probably come from FF, they seem to have a culture more amenable to non-conventional thinking.

That is a real problem for the Sollies. The system is so corrupt that moving up is very difficult without connections. When we first met Shannon she was a young officer but still considered a tac witch.

She was still a relatively junior officer...I think perhaps a captain when she blew up the StateSec ships.

But then she was moved right to the top.

They don't have that in the League. They work against that. New ideas are put down quickly. We've seen how those who have accepted the new realities get treated.

Eventually things may change. But it won't be easy or probably very soon.

Foraker was only a Commander(Sorry - "Citizen Commander"). She was Tourville's ops officer, though.

That's one of the minor issues for the SLN - it has to find a good flag officer for its tac witches to work for. Otherwise - look what happened at Fourth Yeltsin. Foraker spotted Honor's SDs a few minutes before they engaged, but could not get a message to the flagship quickly enough. Had Theisman been in charge of that PN force, with Foraker as his tac officer, from the start...

The major issue for the SLN, however, is that Foraker, Tourville, Theisman and Giscard did not and could not have stopped Operation Buttercup with a military solution. It took these people around three years to come up with adequate countermeasures - and they had an incredibly productive Bolthole to do it with.

The SLN? They can't deploy enough Cataphracts with enough fire control to make a difference. Even if they produced a Moriarty-type fire control platform/vessel, the RMN already has the technology, tactics and experience to handle it and most missile storms.