WAR ROOM

not sure home fleet practices would change.

they were fairly quick off the mark when haven came calling, and that was what 300 years(?) since a hostile force had intruded upon the home system. no reason to think readiness levels (once they had enough ships to have both a home and another fleet) would be less then they were before haven rolled the dice.

also OB by its very nature was designed to destroy infrastructure. they dared not aim it at ships which might for whatever reason decide to move in the time before the graser torps etc arrived

Dauntless wrote:not sure home fleet practices would change.

they were fairly quick off the mark when haven came calling, and that was what 300 years(?) since a hostile force had intruded upon the home system. no reason to think readiness levels (once they had enough ships to have both a home and another fleet) would be less then they were before haven rolled the dice.

also OB by its very nature was designed to destroy infrastructure. they dared not aim it at ships which might for whatever reason decide to move in the time before the graser torps etc arrived

Actually, they didn't have enough graser torps to waste any on unpredictable Home Fleet positions. The attack was carried out on a shoestring - thicker rope still several years away from completion.

It's not clear whether the original Oyster Bay planned to attack any fleet elements present in the systems with yards as well - to thin them down so the Sollies aren't so badly outmatched.

I'm not sure it's necessary to keep hot impellers on all warships. May not even be viable due to lack of maintenance facilities - even if those ships are quite new, all commissioned after mid 1922. But thanks to Oyster Bay, the Allies know there is an invisible threat and will be operating recon drones in large numbers at all times.

Plus the standard rotation of one or two squadrons with hot impellers - augmented by LAC patrols as well. Either LACs or recon drones could interpose their wedges between slumbering wallers and incoming torpedoes relatively quickly.

And Allen Higgins is still in command. No way is he going to let Home Fleet slack off.

Vince wrote: quote="cthia"]Has the general disposition of Home Fleet changed since Oyster Bay? As in its state of readiness at all times? I know that the disposition of the USN has changed since Pearl Harbor. No one will ever catch us again with our pants down around our ankles and all "safely moored" in harbor.

Does the ramifications of Oyster Bay relegate Home Fleet to always having to sit in orbit with its impellers hot? And doesn't operating costs skyrocket and ship maintenance take a sharp dive since Oyster Bay? (W S)hore leave while orbiting probably isn't business as usual either.


Aside:
My mind is preoccupied with Pearl Harbor lately because of my oldest brother and sisters ranting on about an insanely popular book by Gordon Prange.

At 7:53 a.m., December 7, 1941, America's national consciousness and confidence were rocked as the first wave of Japanese warplanes took aim at the U.S. Naval fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor. As intense and absorbing as a suspense novel, At Dawn We Slept is the unparalleled and exhaustive account of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is widely regarded as the definitive assessment of the events surrounding one of the most daring and brilliant naval operations of all time. Through extensive research and interviews with American and Japanese leaders, Gordon W. Prange has written a remarkable historical account of the assault that-sixty years later-America cannot forget.

This book comes highly recommended. Every news source is calling it the definitive account of Pearl Harbor.

My sister doesn't do much Sci-Fi, but she imbibes everything history like its coffee. She likes it raw, dark and unsweetened. History that is.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/at-dawn ... ctInfoTabs

I haven't read At Dawn We Slept, but I can recommend Miracle At Midway by the same author as very good.

https://www.amazon.com/stream/ref=nav_u ... age_Detail[/quote]


If you want an updated account of the Battle of Midway try reading Shattered Sword by Parshall and Tully.

Because of information come my way shortly ago, I'm now aware of my bit of an oversight regarding our current CO of Home Fleet. Thank you regarding your post setting me firmly back on track in that area munroburton. Allen Higgins is still in command. I'll have my nonexistent secretary change the plaque on the main wall asap. This is why paper pushers like moi need to rotate out of administration once in a while. Not sure who's responsible for this little snafu. Me or my nonexistent secretary who keeps rolling her nonexistent eyes.

Which brings me back to a query. Harrington is CO of Grand Fleet. Its first CO as Wiki lists it. Both leaving room for and implying that Grand Fleet is here to stay and will most likely ride again.

However, what is Honor's disposition at present? Grand Fleet isn't actually a fleet anymore is it? Only on paper. Surely Haven couldn't afford to go without 70% of Capital Fleet indefinitely. Which relegates Harrington to CO of a papier–mâché fleet?

An Aside:
Did Haven take a big risk sending away that much of Capital Fleet? I wonder if the MAlign had been on the ball if they could have exploited that fact?

Regarding Higgens. I love the guy and all. And I hope he gets himself some get back for the way the universe has been picking on him. However, is it a wise choice to give him Home Fleet? Being under so much scrutiny - at least feeling he has and feeling the pressure that accompanies it - is he the right man for the job? Surely he's had a full psyche exam.

I feel like Iceman on Top Gun when he was cut off abruptly attempting to inquire about the choice of Maverick to back him up with Merlin on Ready Five...

"Regarding Maverick, sir..."

"I know what you're about to say Kazansky, get on it!"

Honor still commands Eighth Fleet. The Grand Fleet was devised to avoid subordinating the Havenite fleet to Home Fleet. It also included the Protector's Own and the GSN Home Fleet.

Barring any more suicidal mass charges into the Manticoran Binary System(even if one did happen, the RMN alone could have beat Filareta - the extra reinforcements were there in an attempt to persuade Filareta to surrender without firing), there probably isn't any need for the Grand Fleet to sit in one place anymore. Quite contraindicated, in fact.

The question of Higgins isn't "should we give him Home Fleet?" which was answered by the White Haven Admiralty after First Manticore. It's "Should we take Home Fleet away from him?" and IMO, the answer is no.

munroburton wrote:Honor still commands Eighth Fleet. The Grand Fleet was devised to avoid subordinating the Havenite fleet to Home Fleet. It also included the Protector's Own and the GSN Home Fleet.

Barring any more suicidal mass charges into the Manticoran Binary System(even if one did happen, the RMN alone could have beat Filareta - the extra reinforcements were there in an attempt to persuade Filareta to surrender without firing), there probably isn't any need for the Grand Fleet to sit in one place anymore. Quite contraindicated, in fact.

The question of Higgins isn't "should we give him Home Fleet?" which was answered by the White Haven Admiralty after First Manticore. It's "Should we take Home Fleet away from him?" and IMO, the answer is no.

And to save on those god-awful Manty missiles until a more deserving opponent can be found.

Well no, you can't go and take the command away from him, once you've given it to him. Especially if you're worried about him psychologically. But that still doesn't answer whether you think he's right, or ready, for the job?

In the War Room, one has to ask the tough, biting questions. In the heat of battle isn't when you want to discover any inadequacies of your CO of Home Fleet.

Though I'm sure that Honor would have had plenty of time to assess him.

I'm certain that Nimitz knows the taste and smell of confidence well enough by now that he could vet Higgins himself.

Dauntless wrote:not sure home fleet practices would change.

they were fairly quick off the mark when haven came calling, and that was what 300 years(?) since a hostile force had intruded upon the home system. no reason to think readiness levels (once they had enough ships to have both a home and another fleet) would be less then they were before haven rolled the dice.

also OB by its very nature was designed to destroy infrastructure. they dared not aim it at ships which might for whatever reason decide to move in the time before the graser torps etc arrived

Indeed.

But. That was against an enemy whose ships' hyper signatures they could see. Against this new enemy is an unseen enemy who has the ability to "decloak" a "Spider of Prey" (for all intents and purposes) right off their starboard bow.

Perhaps the strategic concerns of OB were to destroy infrastructure only. We as readers know that. What of the Manties? And if they do NOT know that. Then wouldn't their worry not only have to assume the worse and consider that their new stealthy enemy may target ships...and planets?

Yet again an example of what D'Orville pretty much said, paraphrasing "I have to respect what the enemy may do."

Surely we all realize that the MA is giving Manticore a taste of its own medicine with their, "Unbeknownst to you, I'm looking right up your arse" stealth?

munroburton wrote:

Dauntless wrote:not sure home fleet practices would change.

they were fairly quick off the mark when haven came calling, and that was what 300 years(?) since a hostile force had intruded upon the home system. no reason to think readiness levels (once they had enough ships to have both a home and another fleet) would be less then they were before haven rolled the dice.

also OB by its very nature was designed to destroy infrastructure. they dared not aim it at ships which might for whatever reason decide to move in the time before the graser torps etc arrived

Actually, they didn't have enough graser torps to waste any on unpredictable Home Fleet positions. The attack was carried out on a shoestring - thicker rope still several years away from completion.

It's not clear whether the original Oyster Bay planned to attack any fleet elements present in the systems with yards as well - to thin them down so the Sollies aren't so badly outmatched.

I'm not sure it's necessary to keep hot impellers on all warships. May not even be viable due to lack of maintenance facilities - even if those ships are quite new, all commissioned after mid 1922. But thanks to Oyster Bay, the Allies know there is an invisible threat and will be operating recon drones in large numbers at all times.

Plus the standard rotation of one or two squadrons with hot impellers - augmented by LAC patrols as well. Either LACs or recon drones could interpose their wedges between slumbering wallers and incoming torpedoes relatively quickly.

And Allen Higgins is still in command. No way is he going to let Home Fleet slack off.

That's brilliant. Operate a limited number of ships hot. I applied the concept to its extreme. Guilty of my own pet peeve. So I'm going to assume that OB did indeed have a similar effect on the RMN's disposition as well.

A question, not implying that you are wrong, but can RMN tech detect incoming MA missiles in time to interpose? They barely got a sniff on impact at OB. Of course they didn't have recon drones deployed, but space is big. And the MA can see in the dark. The RMN can't.

And deploying an effective recon drone net at such an economic low that the economy is experiencing right now, indefinitely, isn't a trivial concern of the Exchequer.

"Elizabeth, your navy is going to bankrupt us!"

I should finish my thoughts about Higgins. If something untoward and catastrophic were to happen in the Manty system while Higgins is CO and he survived it, he'd send his own career to the breakers. He wouldn't take a pulser shot to the head, IMO. But his career would, by his own hands.

cthia wrote:An Aside:
Did Haven take a big risk sending away that much of Capital Fleet? I wonder if the MAlign had been on the ball if they could have exploited that fact?

Textev: I still wish we had gotten more of their new construction... No, father. ... OB was a one off. it worked because of surprise. ... We can't risk the ships and we especially can't risk the crews.

Not any risk at all, in fact better those SDs be at manticore than at Haven. Haven can't see the Spider drives any better than Manticore can, right?