Counter missile pods

SharkHunter wrote:

SWM wrote:See David Weber's comments about powered pods:
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/176/1

For a shipkiller, yes. But long range for a CM is simply "outside the range of current CM technology, so a "CM Pod" would presumably have totally different "shaping" and mission requirements. Putting a micro-fusion reactor in a "CM Pod" would give it the ability to power up the CMs remotely and perhaps include some sort of CM control in the pod. Likely the thing would be at least drone size and I am not at all sure how a warship would deploy them (hence the BuWeaps and BuShips aren't likely to develop them). Maybe they'd only be for fleet level engagements, deployed from Ammo Ships a la Battle of Spindle.

But we're *by proxy* stuck here on Gryphon having had GRAM shot out from under us... so we forum geeks gotta do something for a while...like think up crazy new weapon & defensive ideas them old coots don't think will work... so the old coots can shoot'em down. Or not.

If it's getting that large and that powerful, it's getting into the range of unmanned LAC's. The official word on those (albeit 12 years old now) is http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/137/1
That's not ruling such things out firmly, so there's room in there for the big remote CM-launch drone (taking that as a very broad noun for unmanned autonomous unit). But it's at least a little discouraging. It's certainly not in the spirit of the original series' tech base and feel, but that's been evolving ever since so that's not a slam-dunk rejection either.

I think, more than anything else, CM's just need fire-and-forget independence of control links - or at least, a variant CM that does work that way, perhaps besides old-fashioned, cheaper, smaller medium-range CM's for traditional interceptions.

A variation on the CM-firing drone would be one specifically to work with LAC's that can assume control of its CM's, and/or designate their targets to begin with. The idea would be, in effect, deeper LAC CM magazines that move themselves and follow the LAC around waiting for it to pick out victims. (It'd also, presumably, be able to do that for starships too, but starships won't have the need or be in the right place with nearly the frequency LAC's will.)

JeffEngel wrote:

SharkHunter wrote: For a shipkiller, yes. But long range for a CM is simply "outside the range of current CM technology, so a "CM Pod" would presumably have totally different "shaping" and mission requirements. Putting a micro-fusion reactor in a "CM Pod" would give it the ability to power up the CMs remotely and perhaps include some sort of CM control in the pod. Likely the thing would be at least drone size and I am not at all sure how a warship would deploy them (hence the BuWeaps and BuShips aren't likely to develop them). Maybe they'd only be for fleet level engagements, deployed from Ammo Ships a la Battle of Spindle.

But we're *by proxy* stuck here on Gryphon having had GRAM shot out from under us... so we forum geeks gotta do something for a while...like think up crazy new weapon & defensive ideas them old coots don't think will work... so the old coots can shoot'em down. Or not.

If it's getting that large and that powerful, it's getting into the range of unmanned LAC's. The official word on those (albeit 12 years old now) is http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/137/1
That's not ruling such things out firmly, so there's room in there for the big remote CM-launch drone (taking that as a very broad noun for unmanned autonomous unit). But it's at least a little discouraging. It's certainly not in the spirit of the original series' tech base and feel, but that's been evolving ever since so that's not a slam-dunk rejection either.

I think, more than anything else, CM's just need fire-and-forget independence of control links - or at least, a variant CM that does work that way, perhaps besides old-fashioned, cheaper, smaller medium-range CM's for traditional interceptions.

A variation on the CM-firing drone would be one specifically to work with LAC's that can assume control of its CM's, and/or designate their targets to begin with. The idea would be, in effect, deeper LAC CM magazines that move themselves and follow the LAC around waiting for it to pick out victims. (It'd also, presumably, be able to do that for starships too, but starships won't have the need or be in the right place with nearly the frequency LAC's will.)

I think if any LAC went 'drone', it sounds like the bird boats, aka Ferrets. They're already heavy on both shipkillers, and CMs, and with LAC doctrine moving more towards Katana's and Shrikes/Cimeterre-Alphas (it IS Alphas that are the Republican laser LACs right??)

Might even be the Republic Cimeterre-Bravo's that get turned into drones, they had even larger missile storage than the Ferrets did, due to Republican missile sizes, and how thoroughly they stripped it out just to get near-Manty performance. Imagine what a Cimeterre could do, if it got a Manty fission pile, with Manty missiles instead of the Republican 'trash'.

A drone Cimeterre with the fission pile would be even faster than any current Manty LAC, since it no longer has to accelerate at speeds compensators can handle. This means it's only limited in acceleration to what it's particle screens can handle, which pushes it even higher than the ~600-650 g that Shrikes and Katana's already travel at. Now obviously, due to possible 'issues' with transmissions red-/blue-shifting, the drone LAC would really be given orders that are close to "from orbit of planet X, travel in (direction and high speed + turnover duration) and open receivers to tie into formation battle link"

Battle of Manticore is a good example of where drone LAC's would have been great. With higher acceleration, they could be kept in hangars above the planets, and still have more than enough speed to have caught up with CLAC-based squadrons, before they hammered into the incoming Republican fleet.

TLDR: rip the missile Cimeterre or Ferret's apart, convert to drone piloting, and got a LAC that's going to be upwards of 30% faster than manned LACs, and one helluva force multiplier for LAC squadrons. Not to mention making great decoy's for the manned units.... missile wave coming in on your LAC squadron? "quick! order the drones to physically move between the incoming missiles and the manned LACs, form wall, and take the hits!"

Somtaaw wrote:
I think if any LAC went 'drone', it sounds like the bird boats, aka Ferrets. They're already heavy on both shipkillers, and CMs, and with LAC doctrine moving more towards Katana's and Shrikes/Cimeterre-Alphas (it IS Alphas that are the Republican laser LACs right??)

Might even be the Republic Cimeterre-Bravo's that get turned into drones, they had even larger missile storage than the Ferrets did, due to Republican missile sizes, and how thoroughly they stripped it out just to get near-Manty performance. Imagine what a Cimeterre could do, if it got a Manty fission pile, with Manty missiles instead of the Republican 'trash'.

A drone Cimeterre with the fission pile would be even faster than any current Manty LAC, since it no longer has to accelerate at speeds compensators can handle. This means it's only limited in acceleration to what it's particle screens can handle, which pushes it even higher than the ~600-650 g that Shrikes and Katana's already travel at. Now obviously, due to possible 'issues' with transmissions red-/blue-shifting, the drone LAC would really be given orders that are close to "from orbit of planet X, travel in (direction and high speed + turnover duration) and open receivers to tie into formation battle link"

Battle of Manticore is a good example of where drone LAC's would have been great. With higher acceleration, they could be kept in hangars above the planets, and still have more than enough speed to have caught up with CLAC-based squadrons, before they hammered into the incoming Republican fleet.

TLDR: rip the missile Cimeterre or Ferret's apart, convert to drone piloting, and got a LAC that's going to be upwards of 30% faster than manned LACs, and one helluva force multiplier for LAC squadrons. Not to mention making great decoy's for the manned units.... missile wave coming in on your LAC squadron? "quick! order the drones to physically move between the incoming missiles and the manned LACs, form wall, and take the hits!"

Nit:

The top accel on Shrikes is >800g now. The 600-650 number was their original accel.

Particle shielding only effects the top SPEED of a ship, not it's ACCELERATION. All warships with the same technology have the same top speed (~.8c for Manticorian ships), independent of size and acceleration.

Light speed induced Doppler Shift (Red shift/Blue shift) is also based on Speed (more accurately, Velocity) rather than Accel, and the effects of which would be no different than that of any other ship in the fleet.

And I know it's been mentioned several times above - but hasn't David pretty much hammered drone warships flat?

Theemile wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:
I think if any LAC went 'drone', it sounds like the bird boats, aka Ferrets. They're already heavy on both shipkillers, and CMs, and with LAC doctrine moving more towards Katana's and Shrikes/Cimeterre-Alphas (it IS Alphas that are the Republican laser LACs right??)

Might even be the Republic Cimeterre-Bravo's that get turned into drones, they had even larger missile storage than the Ferrets did, due to Republican missile sizes, and how thoroughly they stripped it out just to get near-Manty performance. Imagine what a Cimeterre could do, if it got a Manty fission pile, with Manty missiles instead of the Republican 'trash'.

A drone Cimeterre with the fission pile would be even faster than any current Manty LAC, since it no longer has to accelerate at speeds compensators can handle. This means it's only limited in acceleration to what it's particle screens can handle, which pushes it even higher than the ~600-650 g that Shrikes and Katana's already travel at. Now obviously, due to possible 'issues' with transmissions red-/blue-shifting, the drone LAC would really be given orders that are close to "from orbit of planet X, travel in (direction and high speed + turnover duration) and open receivers to tie into formation battle link"

Battle of Manticore is a good example of where drone LAC's would have been great. With higher acceleration, they could be kept in hangars above the planets, and still have more than enough speed to have caught up with CLAC-based squadrons, before they hammered into the incoming Republican fleet.

TLDR: rip the missile Cimeterre or Ferret's apart, convert to drone piloting, and got a LAC that's going to be upwards of 30% faster than manned LACs, and one helluva force multiplier for LAC squadrons. Not to mention making great decoy's for the manned units.... missile wave coming in on your LAC squadron? "quick! order the drones to physically move between the incoming missiles and the manned LACs, form wall, and take the hits!"

Nit:

The top accel on Shrikes is >800g now. The 600-650 number was their original accel.

Particle shielding only effects the top SPEED of a ship, not it's ACCELERATION. All warships with the same technology have the same top speed (~.8c for Manticorian ships), independent of size and acceleration.

Light speed induced Doppler Shift (Red shift/Blue shift) is also based on Speed (more accurately, Velocity) rather than Accel, and the effects of which would be no different than that of any other ship in the fleet.

And I know it's been mentioned several times above - but hasn't David pretty much hammered drone warships flat?

Hmm, well I was close... sort of, the drones would still push a higher top velocity both accelerating and maintaining it once they've gotten there. But it'd still have to be told rather specifically where it's going, and whats its doing prior to zipping off, and getting the doppler shift affecting it's ability to receive mission updates in transit.

And I'm only suggesting the Cimeterre-Bravo's or Ferrets, since apparently David's already considered LAC-based, or LAC-supporting drones. It's in the pearl that Jeff linked, that they'll amount to remote weapons platforms. With the latest LAC doctrines of both major players of the Grand Alliance, LACs are almost purely missile defense, or for playing with other LACs.

Seeing as how the SLN/MAlign don't currently have any 'known' LACs, although the MAlign do have those nasty Graser torpedoes... an unmanned Ferret drone-LAC (DLAC? LAC-D?) would make a nifty chaser of torpedoes.