Question about Beowulf tactics

fallsfromtrees wrote:Do we have an actual time line that says when COG occurred relative to the events in ART. There was no reason for Honor to discuss Beowulf with Zilwicki - he was concerned with the situation on Mesa, and that was what she reassured him about. In point of fact, I would have been very surprised if the subject of Beowulf had even come up in the discussion between Honor and Zilwicki.

I don't have a copy of ART to hand (drat!), but a quick look at the Honorverse wiki shows the Wedding of Roger and Rivka on 1 July and the Solarian League Assembly vote and Beowulf's announcement of 2 July, with Mike's arrival in Mesa/Anton's in Manticore in October, so I concur, whatever happened in Beowulf had occurred already by that time.

If I get home and nobody has added the data, I'll pull the applicable quotes from ART and add it to the thread.

Hutch wrote:I don't have a copy of ART to hand (drat!), but a quick look at the Honorverse wiki shows the Wedding of Roger and Rivka on 1 July and the Solarian League Assembly vote and Beowulf's announcement of 2 July, with Mike's arrival in Mesa/Anton's in Manticore in October, so I concur, whatever happened in Beowulf had occurred already by that time.

From my timeline notes (for 16 July 1922PD:

After two weeks of, mostly, acrimonious debate, the Solarian Assembly votes on Rep Reid's motion. The vote is the expected rubber stamp of the Mandarins' intention.

(The motion's designation of "AD-1002-07-02-22" suggests the motion was made July 2, 1922 and the vote taken on July 16, 1922)

In a scathing response to the vote, Felecia Hadley announces that "Beowulf will hold a system-wide plebiscite two months from today to determine whether the Beowulf system shall withdraw from the Solarian League."

The secession vote could therefore be expected 16 Sep 1922 PD and the SLN response within a week at worst. If Anton did confer with Honor in October, then the secession vote was "old news" and not worth comment.

Adm Gold Peak left Meyers for Mesa sometime in late August 1922. Sometime in October would be about right for an arrival in Mesa, but I don't recall any textev regarding who commanded the fleet that arrived at the end of CoG.

I haven't parsed Cauldron of Ghosts for my timeline spreadsheet, so I won't offer any other opinions on Who or When from that book yet.

Weird Harold wrote:

Hutch wrote:I don't have a copy of ART to hand (drat!), but a quick look at the Honorverse wiki shows the Wedding of Roger and Rivka on 1 July and the Solarian League Assembly vote and Beowulf's announcement of 2 July, with Mike's arrival in Mesa/Anton's in Manticore in October, so I concur, whatever happened in Beowulf had occurred already by that time.

From my timeline notes (for 16 July 1922PD:

After two weeks of, mostly, acrimonious debate, the Solarian Assembly votes on Rep Reid's motion. The vote is the expected rubber stamp of the Mandarins' intention.

(The motion's designation of "AD-1002-07-02-22" suggests the motion was made July 2, 1922 and the vote taken on July 16, 1922)

In a scathing response to the vote, Felecia Hadley announces that "Beowulf will hold a system-wide plebiscite two months from today to determine whether the Beowulf system shall withdraw from the Solarian League."

The secession vote could therefore be expected 16 Sep 1922 PD and the SLN response within a week at worst. If Anton did confer with Honor in October, then the secession vote was "old news" and not worth comment.

Adm Gold Peak left Meyers for Mesa sometime in late August 1922. Sometime in October would be about right for an arrival in Mesa, but I don't recall any textev regarding who commanded the fleet that arrived at the end of CoG.

I haven't parsed Cauldron of Ghosts for my timeline spreadsheet, so I won't offer any other opinions on Who or When from that book yet.

Zilwicki leaves Mesa in Chapter 53 of CoG. Chapter 55 (just before the nukes start going off on Mesa) is marked October 1922 P.D. Zilwicki meets Harrington in Chapter 67 (the last chapter) of CoG.

SWM wrote:Zilwicki leaves Mesa in Chapter 53 of CoG. Chapter 55 (just before the nukes start going off on Mesa) is marked October 1922 P.D. Zilwicki meets Harrington in Chapter 67 (the last chapter) of CoG.

Given those dates, the secession vote and any SLN response is over and done two weeks before Zilwicki left Mesa.

If something negative had occurred to shift the overall equation as dramatically as a successful attack on Beowulf or even one which damaged Beowulf's orbital infrastructure, I would think that we would have been told somehow in COG. The natural place for refering to it would have been that conversation between Zilwicke and Honor. After all even when there is one overriding concern, most conversations have more than one subject.

Don

n7axw wrote:If something negative had occurred to shift the overall equation as dramatically as a successful attack on Beowulf or even one which damaged Beowulf's orbital infrastructure, I would think that we would have been told somehow in COG. The natural place for refering to it would have been that conversation between Zilwicke and Honor. After all even when there is one overriding concern, most conversations have more than one subject.

Don

That, and the fact that he just transited through from Beowulf. I expect he could have accessed the news while waiting in the transit queue.

Rob

n7axw wrote:If something negative had occurred to shift the overall equation as dramatically as a successful attack on Beowulf or even one which damaged Beowulf's orbital infrastructure, I would think that we would have been told somehow in COG.

The editing of COG was pretty horrible due to issues with the availability of both David and Eric. David pretty much apologized at HonorCon for the condition of the book as published. Given that they couldn't keep track of what character in this book was on what planet from chapter to chapter, I don't think you can assume that the interaction of the book with the master timeline was ever really worked out.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:If something negative had occurred to shift the overall equation as dramatically as a successful attack on Beowulf or even one which damaged Beowulf's orbital infrastructure, I would think that we would have been told somehow in COG.

The editing of COG was pretty horrible due to issues with the availability of both David and Eric. David pretty much apologized at HonorCon for the condition of the book as published. Given that they couldn't keep track of what character in this book was on what planet from chapter to chapter, I don't think you can assume that the interaction of the book with the master timeline was ever really worked out.

Hi kzt,

That would leave things up in the air, wouldn't it. Still, even not completely trusting the time line, COG would have to have covered a period of time spanning a minimum of about six months following the wedding which would have taken the timeline past Beowulf's window of vulnerability.

So... I hang on to my point of view, but tentatively... as in understanding that it might need to change if provided with better info.

Don

I went back into ART and Beowulf is proceeding with the installation of Mycroft. The problem was that they needed a couple of more months before it was going to be ready- or more- to be up and running.

It was mentioned that not only was it not a visable deterrent, but that they were apparently not going to be able to bring it on-line till it was compleat. The first part of that I can understand: you have highly stealthed control unit (the Keyhole 2) platforms as well as stealthed pods. With the range of the Manticore tech missiles and FTL tactical control you won't need either the control units nor pods in the acceptable traffic lanes in the system.
Not sure why they can't bring it up in sections as the Keyhole 2 units (and power supplies) are positioned along with the pods under their close control. Even a couple of units and a thousand pods are going to be able to give reach "across" the entire system with MDM missiles so IF the SLN shows up before the full system in in place, there will be an awful lot of MDMs available to stiffen BSDF defense. That is even if your pods are a long way beyond "normal" SLN powered flight ranges.

Part of this is when you/they expect the SLN to intervene with the vote process/results/

If the SLN puts a fleet into the Beowulf system before the vote, that is just as much Political influencing and Military intimidation tactics that would be called against Manticore. So, if said fleet shows up, the BSDF tells them to get the hell out of their sovereign system space and THEN uses that nice FTL to call for SEM/ROH fleets to come help.

If SLN put a fleet outside the territorial limit and holds there, waiting for the vote to be announced and then goes running in, it will have given BSDF a chance to turn the probable tactical path into a death trap. Even if SLN sends a force in multiple sections which hang in hyperspace around the system and then come in on message, I would think that the ship traffic (DDs and/or DBs) would give some indication.
Why not arrange for Haven to effectivly do the same thing and -with SEM DBs on the edge of the Beowulf system combined with Hermes Bouys- bring ROHN in as well. Haven should have both a much higher speed capablity (both actual and compensators) and seriously longer weapons reach so the SLN force(s) would find themselves trapped between BSDF and ROHN.
Could work.

Brigade XO wrote:I went back into ART and Beowulf is proceeding with the installation of Mycroft. The problem was that they needed a couple of more months before it was going to be ready- or more- to be up and running.

It was mentioned that not only was it not a visable deterrent, but that they were apparently not going to be able to bring it on-line till it was compleat. The first part of that I can understand: you have highly stealthed control unit (the Keyhole 2) platforms as well as stealthed pods. With the range of the Manticore tech missiles and FTL tactical control you won't need either the control units nor pods in the acceptable traffic lanes in the system.
Not sure why they can't bring it up in sections as the Keyhole 2 units (and power supplies) are positioned along with the pods under their close control. Even a couple of units and a thousand pods are going to be able to give reach "across" the entire system with MDM missiles so IF the SLN shows up before the full system in in place, there will be an awful lot of MDMs available to stiffen BSDF defense. That is even if your pods are a long way beyond "normal" SLN powered flight ranges.

Part of this is when you/they expect the SLN to intervene with the vote process/results/

If the SLN puts a fleet into the Beowulf system before the vote, that is just as much Political influencing and Military intimidation tactics that would be called against Manticore. So, if said fleet shows up, the BSDF tells them to get the hell out of their sovereign system space and THEN uses that nice FTL to call for SEM/ROH fleets to come help.

If SLN put a fleet outside the territorial limit and holds there, waiting for the vote to be announced and then goes running in, it will have given BSDF a chance to turn the probable tactical path into a death trap. Even if SLN sends a force in multiple sections which hang in hyperspace around the system and then come in on message, I would think that the ship traffic (DDs and/or DBs) would give some indication.
Why not arrange for Haven to effectivly do the same thing and -with SEM DBs on the edge of the Beowulf system combined with Hermes Bouys- bring ROHN in as well. Haven should have both a much higher speed capablity (both actual and compensators) and seriously longer weapons reach so the SLN force(s) would find themselves trapped between BSDF and ROHN.
Could work.

I just went back and reread that section myself. I find myself wondering just how much of Honor's unease has to do with actual vulnerability and how much it has to do with the perception of the Sollies that Beowulf is vulnerable. Those are two different tthings.

Don