Of Mike and Mesa

SYED wrote:Wanna bet those corparations are the type to put their heels on the necks of the verge? with the fall of mesa, those places will either be nationalised, or caretakered by local sollys.

With the fall of Mesa, most of those corporations will re-locate themselves elsewhere.
The corporate offices were on Mesa, but, at least Technodyne, most assets were elsewhere.

The corporate directors were likely all conveniently at "out of system conferences"

-- Stewart

we know the alliance will have to act against the league, so why not trarget those corps as if they are using mesa, they have to be nad so might as well deal with them in the league now. they are sure to be the kind to harm the verge and have contacts in the navy, to push them in to open fighting instead of raiding.

SYED wrote:we know the alliance will have to act against the league, so why not trarget those corps as if they are using mesa, they have to be nad so might as well deal with them in the league now. they are sure to be the kind to harm the verge and have contacts in the navy, to push them in to open fighting instead of raiding.

So let me get this straight. If there is an insurance company or a bank or a shipping company that had a major corporate interest presence on Mesa, they are now to be legitimate priority targets of war by the Grand Alliance, regardless of the presence or, oh yes, absence of serious evidence of illegal or abhorrent practices, just because they operated in a major way from Mesa?

Isn't that kinda, well, not the way Manticore and, now, the Republic of Haven work? In fact, isn't that kinda a pretty good example of what makes them different from the totally self-serving bureaucratic manipulating of the 5 Manderins?

Note that we, the readers, know that the vast majority of the commerce and industry of Mesa is uninvolved, if often slightly shady, camouflage for the MAlign Onion, not operating agencies of the MAlign.

dreamrider

We know that the raiding strategy of the alliance will be very costly to the corparations. THey would be eager to have the solly navy do somehting to stop it, say open battle, but as we all know, they would loose such a confrontation. It might be helpful to the alliance if the league does do this. THe fewer ships the enemies have the better.
Mesan corpartions, are said to be very corupt, enough to have contacts in the navy to force them into action. even against possible navy policy. The more corrupt businesses they cost money, the greater the push of those special interests in the navy. It would be a way to force the navy facing them in open battle rather than just raiding and counter raiding. Use the corruption of hte league and the navy against them.

SYED wrote:We know that the raiding strategy of the alliance will be very costly to the corparations. THey would be eager to have the solly navy do somehting to stop it, say open battle, but as we all know, they would loose such a confrontation. It might be helpful to the alliance if the league does do this. THe fewer ships the enemies have the better.
Mesan corpartions, are said to be very corupt, enough to have contacts in the navy to force them into action. even against possible navy policy. The more corrupt businesses they cost money, the greater the push of those special interests in the navy. It would be a way to force the navy facing them in open battle rather than just raiding and counter raiding. Use the corruption of hte league and the navy against them.

I agree with your basic thought here. I would only point out that being a one trick pony would only work so many times in a row. Once it starts soaking into the admittedly limited minds of SLN admirals that confrontations with the GA are, at the current difference in tech, only a good way of getting blown out of space, the cooperation that the Alignment and their in pocket transtellars get might become a bit more limited. After all you can only kill off so many admirals before something starts looking rotten, even in the League.

Don

The Mesan Navy would fight. Most of it, at least. Whatever elements were in position to meet Mike would have done so, and done their best. But they would have died. My reading is that the Mesan Navy is comparable to Frontier Fleet in quality - Solarian tech and at least some operational experience.

It's possible that there was a ship or two in the wrong place that witnessed the Battle of Mesa and survived. They would have two choices. One would be to surrender and hope for mercy. The other would be to run like hell. I think the latter is more likely, in which case there might be a Mesan destroyer or cruiser out there looking to deliver some kind of payback to Manticore.

Thoughts on the number of ships vs the MSN.

Keep in mind that the MSN is used to taking orders from .... somebody. And those somebodies have cut and run, leaving a defense force that already knows they can't stand up to a single SD(p), let alone whatever parts of 10th Fleet Admirals Henke, etc. brought with her to Meyers and thence to Mesa.

But in Cauldron of Ghosts and at the end of aRT, for the sake of responsibility. Henke IS 10th Fleet.

She's not going to leave Meyers bare, and there's more Madras sector wiping up to do. In the unlikely event she were killed in that battle, control of 10th fleet doesn't just go downhill forever to her highest ranking squadron admiral. "Mesa area 10th fleet" would, but only until communication were established with Manticore. Whatever she's left behind her is temporarily Khumalo's until she gets back.

So twelve capital ships are apparently what "10th Fleet" took with her. More than enough to make the abandoned Mesan command structure to consider the high likelihood of being shot or hung in the next few hours or days if they didn't roll over and play humble puppy PDQ.

SharkHunter wrote:Thoughts on the number of ships vs the MSN.

Keep in mind that the MSN is used to taking orders from .... somebody. And those somebodies have cut and run, leaving a defense force that already knows they can't stand up to a single SD(p), let alone whatever parts of 10th Fleet Admirals Henke, etc. brought with her to Meyers and thence to Mesa.

But in Cauldron of Ghosts and at the end of aRT, for the sake of responsibility. Henke IS 10th Fleet.

She's not going to leave Meyers bare, and there's more Madras sector wiping up to do. In the unlikely event she were killed in that battle, control of 10th fleet doesn't just go downhill forever to her highest ranking squadron admiral. "Mesa area 10th fleet" would, but only until communication were established with Manticore. Whatever she's left behind her is temporarily Khumalo's until she gets back.

So twelve capital ships are apparently what "10th Fleet" took with her. More than enough to make the abandoned Mesan command structure to consider the high likelihood of being shot or hung in the next few hours or days if they didn't roll over and play humble puppy PDQ.

The Mesan Space Navy reports to the Mesan government. The Mesan government has not disappeared. The entire reporting structure of the Mesan Space Navy is intact. It is not an "abandoned command structure".

The people who disappeared in Houdini were, in general, not government or naval officials. The Alignment worked behind the scenes.

SYED wrote:We know that the raiding strategy of the alliance will be very costly to the corparations. THey would be eager to have the solly navy do somehting to stop it, say open battle, but as we all know, they would loose such a confrontation. It might be helpful to the alliance if the league does do this. THe fewer ships the enemies have the better.
Mesan corpartions, are said to be very corupt, enough to have contacts in the navy to force them into action. even against possible navy policy. The more corrupt businesses they cost money, the greater the push of those special interests in the navy. It would be a way to force the navy facing them in open battle rather than just raiding and counter raiding. Use the corruption of hte league and the navy against them.

I'd say the majority of the Mesa corporations are just ordinary corporations trying to make a buck/credit/whatever. They aren't anymore evil than any other corporation. Sure some of their ethics might be looser than we might like (look at the planet they are on) and some of the bigger ones might fit into your evil category, but not all of them by any means are evil or corrupt per say.

Zakharra wrote:

SYED wrote:We know that the raiding strategy of the alliance will be very costly to the corparations. THey would be eager to have the solly navy do somehting to stop it, say open battle, but as we all know, they would loose such a confrontation. It might be helpful to the alliance if the league does do this. THe fewer ships the enemies have the better.
Mesan corpartions, are said to be very corupt, enough to have contacts in the navy to force them into action. even against possible navy policy. The more corrupt businesses they cost money, the greater the push of those special interests in the navy. It would be a way to force the navy facing them in open battle rather than just raiding and counter raiding. Use the corruption of hte league and the navy against them.

I'd say the majority of the Mesa corporations are just ordinary corporations trying to make a buck/credit/whatever. They aren't anymore evil than any other corporation. Sure some of their ethics might be looser than we might like (look at the planet they are on) and some of the bigger ones might fit into your evil category, but not all of them by any means are evil or corrupt per say.

Manpower was accounting for a pretty substantial chunk of Mesa's economy in collusion with Jessyk Combine and some others. Admittedly they were unknowingly fronting for the Alignment. But that being said, you can call it what you want. I call it evil.

Don