Verge Liberation Movements

runsforcelery wrote:I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but just to give it another whack. The current Detweillers are not clones of Leonard Detweiller. In fact, the "boys" are clones of Albrecht only because the onion believed Der Tag was coming pretty darn soon and he was going to need several really capable deputies to deal with it. Right up to his generation, each Detweiller had seen an effort to improve upon the previous generation's Detweiller.

I stand corrected.

runsforcelery wrote:And, for what it's worth, I don't recall ever saying the Leonard was part of the Detweillier Plan, per se, at all. I don't remember saying that he wasn't, either, you understand, but I doubt I ever said either one of them because I deliberately don't want the reader to know yet one way or the other.

No, you haven't said anything one way or another. It just seems obvious that a committee (or two) has become involved along the way and Leonard's mouse design has evolved into an elephant.

Weird Harold wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but just to give it another whack. The current Detweillers are not clones of Leonard Detweiller. In fact, the "boys" are clones of Albrecht only because the onion believed Der Tag was coming pretty darn soon and he was going to need several really capable deputies to deal with it. Right up to his generation, each Detweiller had seen an effort to improve upon the previous generation's Detweiller.

I stand corrected.

runsforcelery wrote:And, for what it's worth, I don't recall ever saying the Leonard was part of the Detweillier Plan, per se, at all. I don't remember saying that he wasn't, either, you understand, but I doubt I ever said either one of them because I deliberately don't want the reader to know yet one way or the other.

No, you haven't said anything one way or another. It just seems obvious that a committee (or two) has become involved along the way and Leonard's mouse design has evolved into an elephant.

I think, Harold, that some of the things being pointed out about widespread liberation movements provides good rational for building those small units you were talking about soonest. The Rolands combined with the Mark 16s are probably the quickest to build.

Don

n7axw wrote:I think, Harold, that some of the things being pointed out about widespread liberation movements provides good rational for building those small units you were talking about soonest. The Rolands combined with the Mark 16s are probably the quickest to build.

Yeah, that's always been a part of why I contend the GA needs more smaller units to deal with the League and SLN. I think a CA or CL production push would be more productive; a Roland just doesn't have the magazine capacity for sustained independent operations nor does it have sufficient marines for any kind of ground or boarding action -- most of them don't have Abigail and Matteo to improvise with either.

For that matter, a Havenite CA or CL would probably work better for supporting insurgencies.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think, Harold, that some of the things being pointed out about widespread liberation movements provides good rational for building those small units you were talking about soonest. The Rolands combined with the Mark 16s are probably the quickest to build.

Yeah, that's always been a part of why I contend the GA needs more smaller units to deal with the League and SLN. I think a CA or CL production push would be more productive; a Roland just doesn't have the magazine capacity for sustained independent operations nor does it have sufficient marines for any kind of ground or boarding action -- most of them don't have Abigail and Matteo to improvise with either.

For that matter, a Havenite CA or CL would probably work better for supporting insurgencies.

You may be right. But if you think in terms of divisions accompanied by ammumition ships, the Rolands aren't all that shabby. As for the marines, that is really your strongest point. That would have to be addressed somehow. With anything short of Agamenmons on a sustained op, I think you have to send along ammo ships anyway... something like Volcano.

Don

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think, Harold, that some of the things being pointed out about widespread liberation movements provides good rational for building those small units you were talking about soonest. The Rolands combined with the Mark 16s are probably the quickest to build.

Yeah, that's always been a part of why I contend the GA needs more smaller units to deal with the League and SLN. I think a CA or CL production push would be more productive; a Roland just doesn't have the magazine capacity for sustained independent operations nor does it have sufficient marines for any kind of ground or boarding action -- most of them don't have Abigail and Matteo to improvise with either.

For that matter, a Havenite CA or CL would probably work better for supporting insurgencies.

Thats why I came up with Clan class patrol destroyers. These are Roland class destroyers with 2 missile tubes removed fore and aft and space for 2 squads of marines moved in.

The lead ships are;

HMS Bright Water
HMS Laughing River
HMS Bright Heart
HMS Damp Ground
HMS Swaying Fronds

saber964 wrote:Thats why I came up with Clan class patrol destroyers. These are Roland class destroyers with 2 missile tubes removed fore and aft and space for 2 squads of marines moved in.

I don't think that will work well. That produces a very odd shaped area in a very inconvenient area of the hull.

The flag bridge and assorted support areas is all you need. It's obviously got the actual flag bridge, a conference room, the squadron COs quarters, the 4 or 6 rooms that provide quarters for the assorted commanders, LTCs and LTs that make up his staff, the 2-4 rooms that provide quarters for the various enlisted that round out his staff. Even without converting the actual bridge you can certainly fit a squad to platoon in there. Power armor might be a problem, but it will certainly also be a problem trying to get from a converted missile tube to the boat bay too.

kzt wrote:

saber964 wrote:Thats why I came up with Clan class patrol destroyers. These are Roland class destroyers with 2 missile tubes removed fore and aft and space for 2 squads of marines moved in.

I don't think that will work well. That produces a very odd shaped area in a very inconvenient area of the hull.

The flag bridge and assorted support areas is all you need. It's obviously got the actual flag bridge, a conference room, the squadron COs quarters, the 4 or 6 rooms that provide quarters for the assorted commanders, LTCs and LTs that make up his staff, the 2-4 rooms that provide quarters for the various enlisted that round out his staff. Even without converting the actual bridge you can certainly fit a squad to platoon in there. Power armor might be a problem, but it will certainly also be a problem trying to get from a converted missile tube to the boat bay too.

What you need is probably some kind of armed transport, which I think already exist.

Hornblower wrote:
What you need is probably some kind of armed transport, which I think already exist.

I don't really know how much cubage a squad of marines would take. Could the idea be combined with ammo ships?

Don

I've been thinking about a way for Manticore and/or the GA to deny involvement with the 'liberation movements in a credible way and try to pin it on the MA.

My suggestion:

Publicly announce a $10 million bounty for any Mesan Agents captured alive who are claiming to represent the SEM.

As part of the announcement, it should be made clear that the SEM has zero involvement in ANY liberation movements and no one claiming to be from them can be trusted.

This should make it very impractical for MA agents to claim to be Manticoran.

The other aspect is that it prevents the SEM from looking like Putin to [soon to be] neutral powers.

n7axw wrote:

Hornblower wrote:
What you need is probably some kind of armed transport, which I think already exist.

I don't really know how much cubage a squad of marines would take. Could the idea be combined with ammo ships?

Don

It would take some redesign to fit even a squad of Marines on any kind of cargo vessel (ammo or supply ship). By the time all the addition support space (galley, mess deck, armory, training facility, etc.), is added in, it takes hundreds of cubic feet per body. While this is not a lot of space to use up in a cargo vessel that contains millions of cubic feet of space, the vessel itself uses that same space for other things, like cargo handling equipment.

It could be done, but since the RMN and RHN both already have dedicated troop transports, I see no reason to make the effort. Will both navies need more transports than they have? Of course. That is nearly always the case. If it became truly necessary, it would probably be easier to design "plug and play" containers to be carried by a standard freighter.