Mercenaries in the Honorverse:Manticore's hypocrisy?

You'd think that would be the case, but history is replete with mercenaries refusing to fight and employers refusing to pay over and over again. Mercs need a job, employers need mercs, so both sides get away with it.

Dafmeister wrote:You'd think that would be the case, but history is replete with mercenaries refusing to fight and employers refusing to pay over and over again. Mercs need a job, employers need mercs, so both sides get away with it.

That's true to a point. But with more modern communication tech and more expensive weaponry and equipment,I cannot imagine a poor rep mercenary unit surviving for long when records of their misdeeds is out there to be viewed. The same for employers that regularly screw over mercs. A bad paymaster will have his/her troops deserting because he/she is miserly with payment and treatment of the troops.


That being said, employers cannot necessarily expect mercenaries to fight to the bitter end either, but they should be able to put on a good fight, especially if it's their specialty.

I've read through the whole thread and no-one's mentioned the Volsung Mercenaries.

Having a group of mercenaries attempting to seize control of the Manticoran Star Kingdom without any warning at all would explain why Manticore seems reticent on the possibility of using mercenaries...

The probably still hold a grudge...

Michael Everett wrote:I've read through the whole thread and no-one's mentioned the Volsung Mercenaries.

Having a group of mercenaries attempting to seize control of the Manticoran Star Kingdom without any warning at all would explain why Manticore seems reticent on the possibility of using mercenaries...

The probably still hold a grudge...

I think you missed something when reading the thread. Manticore does not appear to have any policy or prejudice against mercenaries in general.

The OFS ground troops are, by vertue of being raised and fielded by the official Office of Frontier Security as part the security forces of the SL, not mercenaries.

That in many cases they may be scum, thugs and a whole list of other BAD THINGS, they are legal troops of an existing legal government.

Brigade XO wrote:The OFS ground troops are, by vertue of being raised and fielded by the official Office of Frontier Security as part the security forces of the SL, not mercenaries.

Again we run into the problem of defining "mercenaries."

OFS Ground Troops (SL Marines?) and OFS Gendarmes don't hire mercenary companies, but a large proportion of both are individual mercenaries -- ie non-citizens who fight for pay.

Weird Harold wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:The OFS ground troops are, by vertue of being raised and fielded by the official Office of Frontier Security as part the security forces of the SL, not mercenaries.

Again we run into the problem of defining "mercenaries."

OFS Ground Troops (SL Marines?) and OFS Gendarmes don't hire mercenary companies, but a large proportion of both are individual mercenaries -- ie non-citizens who fight for pay.

The original post was clearly about the former, and everyone else has only been talking about the former. The latter is irrelevant to the discussion.

You have a number of different solutions for your armed forces:

1. Conscription. Every able male (and female) has to serve in the forces for a defined time. In case of war this time can be extended and people not active call be called up.

2. The country employ some of their own citizens to serve in the forces. The term is defined in the employment contract. The country may have right to unilaterally extend the service in case of war. To my understanding this is the Manticoran system.

3. The country employ foreigners (French foreign legion)

4. The country employ war fighting "corporations" (mercenary bands or organizations)

I would tend to call the last two mercenaries. The way they behave in war has to do with discipline and orders from high command (like the orders from russian high command in WW2 to rape all German women).

Hornblower wrote:
3. The country employ foreigners (French foreign legion)

4. The country employ war fighting "corporations" (mercenary bands or organizations)

I would tend to call the last two mercenaries. The way they behave in war has to do with discipline and orders from high command (like the orders from russian high command in WW2 to rape all German women).

I think the Foreign Legion would take grave exception to being called mercenaries, as would the Ghurkas serving in the British and Indian armies. What differentiates a mercenary isn't where they're from, it's who they're sworn to serve (if anyone). Ghurkas and Legionnaires are sworn to the service of Britain/India and France respectively, whereas mercenaries aren't sworn to the country they're fighting for.

Don't forget bureaucratic inertia and plain ass covering. I'd say that many of the "security companies" employed in recent conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan to protect assets (both government and corporate)are really mercenaries. Their operators carry military grade weapons in war zones and have killed people. If you are a mid level mandarin and the security company you selected stuffs up, I'm sure you will find creative ways to cover that up in order to protect your career, and they will be rehired by someone else later.

Zakharra wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:You'd think that would be the case, but history is replete with mercenaries refusing to fight and employers refusing to pay over and over again. Mercs need a job, employers need mercs, so both sides get away with it.

That's true to a point. But with more modern communication tech and more expensive weaponry and equipment,I cannot imagine a poor rep mercenary unit surviving for long when records of their misdeeds is out there to be viewed. The same for employers that regularly screw over mercs. A bad paymaster will have his/her troops deserting because he/she is miserly with payment and treatment of the troops.


That being said, employers cannot necessarily expect mercenaries to fight to the bitter end either, but they should be able to put on a good fight, especially if it's their specialty.