might other nations be asking if the mantis are the badies?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But I'd ask those corrupt enterprises: would you actually make more money in a legit business with a bigger market?

Theemile wrote:And the answer in almost all cases is no - corruption stifles economies. Unfortunately, the people who use such tools never seem to be able to see that a small piece of a massive, dynamic economy is usually bigger than a massive piece of a small corrupt one. In addition, such a legal route, is less stressful and easier than illegal and immoral business practices are.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:So you're agreeing with me: going legit could get them more wealth in a bigger market.

Isn't the answer: "it depends"?

If the corrupt enterprise is supplying something that is illegal, then the possible tax-free profits could be much higher than for any possible legitimate business. There is no way to legally supply that thing, so there is no way to go legit in that market.

If the government is already corrupt and there are unethical competitors, then profits will decrease if the business tries to be legit; thus the answer is "NO" in almost all such cases. This is a variation of the prisoner problem: unless everyone becomes ethical, the ethical will lose to the unethical.

tlb wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But I'd ask those corrupt enterprises: would you actually make more money in a legit business with a bigger market?

Theemile wrote:And the answer in almost all cases is no - corruption stifles economies. Unfortunately, the people who use such tools never seem to be able to see that a small piece of a massive, dynamic economy is usually bigger than a massive piece of a small corrupt one. In addition, such a legal route, is less stressful and easier than illegal and immoral business practices are.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:So you're agreeing with me: going legit could get them more wealth in a bigger market.

Isn't the answer: "it depends"?

If the corrupt enterprise is supplying something that is illegal, then the possible tax-free profits could be much higher than for any possible legitimate business. There is no way to legally supply that thing, so there is no way to go legit in that market.

If the government is already corrupt and there are unethical competitors, then profits will decrease if the business tries to be legit; thus the answer is "NO" in almost all such cases. This is a variation of the prisoner problem: unless everyone becomes ethical, the ethical will lose to the unethical.

True, as long a the system is corrupt, it's going to stiffle the economy, and in such a situation the only way to succeed to through illeagal means - IE, when the leadership is cheating, the only way to succeed is to cheat as well.

Much as any (and there are going to be a lot of them because there were a lot of them when it was still the Silesian Confederacy) of the various Silesian cluster separatist groups will react against Manticore and the IAE taking control of their various systems, both of those Empires have a good track record. In particular, you have the example of Sidemore/Marsh which was freed from tyranny by Harrington and then left free with it's former local government plus military and trade agreements and economic help and the creation of the RMN yard/base there.

From what we have been shown in the various books, there are/were a lot of separatist or rebel groups on many of the Silesian systems thought the existence of the Confederacy which spent a lot of time and money being very ineffective at putting them down. That and so many of the planetary governments were corrupt which would have only fanned the flames of resentment. What should happen is that most of the systems in the Manticoran side of the partition will work though the initial period with assistance similar to what we were shown in Talbott. The Andermani will probably be more heavy handed but we haven't really seen any of the way they have addressed their new Silesian systems. I think they will be really effective at "curtailing" corruption if more in the "let's see how prison changes your mind and removes you from political power along with a lot more" approach. Time will tell.

Brigade XO wrote:Much as any (and there are going to be a lot of them because there were a lot of them when it was still the Silesian Confederacy) of the various Silesian cluster separatist groups will react against Manticore and the IAE taking control of their various systems, both of those Empires have a good track record. In particular, you have the example of Sidemore/Marsh which was freed from tyranny by Harrington and then left free with it's former local government plus military and trade agreements and economic help and the creation of the RMN yard/base there.

From what we have been shown in the various books, there are/were a lot of separatist or rebel groups on many of the Silesian systems thought the existence of the Confederacy which spent a lot of time and money being very ineffective at putting them down. That and so many of the planetary governments were corrupt which would have only fanned the flames of resentment. What should happen is that most of the systems in the Manticoran side of the partition will work though the initial period with assistance similar to what we were shown in Talbott. The Andermani will probably be more heavy handed but we haven't really seen any of the way they have addressed their new Silesian systems. I think they will be really effective at "curtailing" corruption if more in the "let's see how prison changes your mind and removes you from political power along with a lot more" approach. Time will tell.

I pity the separatist movement that tries asymmetrical warfare against the RMN. There will be no sweetheart deals with corrupt officials. There will be no greedy system governments providing letters of marque as a fig leaf for piracy or terrorism. What there will be is ONI to find them, the meanest fleet around to run them down, and either a penal colony or a laser head right up[ their butts.