Question about Beowulf tactics

kzt wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:Each Navy's ships would be firing and controlling their own missiles, not extra software needed. I wouldn't think that scan/plot information would be that difficult to share either. After all the RMN has supplied scan/plot information to unarmed enemy ships to collect survivors of battles. Scan information has even been shared with *news* outlets to backup/support claims about what happened in battles. Why would it be such a monumental task for RMN ships to forward FTL scan/plot information to Haven ships and have those Haven ships utilize it?

Ok, my recon drone observes the first wave and sees defenses are working differently than expected and the tactical crew and the tactical expert systems decide the correct action should be reprograming the ECCM to Mode 45D on a Mark23, with the ECM birds going to Mode A12 for 8s second starting 13 seconds prior to entry into the CM outer zone, then going to D31 halfway through the zone, then going to A41 3 seconds prior to the start of warhead deployment. These modes each have an average of 24 different parameters including pulse repetition rates, peak frequency, sweep range, tuning of the wedge, and other changes to several other major systems.

How do you convey that to the RHN missile crew so they can modify the missile wave they have launched and is communication range for about 30 more seconds?

I seem to remember a Manticoran Chief who made a Heavenite ships's computer sit up and beg with just an hand computer, while he was pretending to do other stuff. How long do you think it would take a team of Mantis computer techs to do what they needed with proper computer support, a team of Heaven techs assisting, and all of the passwords for full access?

fallsfromtrees wrote:It doesn't matter if Beowulf calls for help - the SL will claim that the fleet was there to intimidate Beowulf into voting for secession. The fact that there is not truth to that, or that the SLN was there to in fact intimidate Beowulf into voting against secession (or to force that result) is irrelevant. This is a battle for the perceptions of a number of the members of the League - Manticore to encourage them to secede, the mandarins to keep them from doing so. Truth or reality has very little to do with this battle.

In ART in Honor's "wedding conversation" one of the main considerations regarding "browbeating" or the perception there of, had to do with the perception of the people on Beowulf itself and how it would effect their vote. Who cares about the Mandarins, they are always going to make up some sort of excuse. As far as I am concerned its all about the perception of the people on Beowulf and how they vote.

And to look at things from the opposite side of the mirror, how would it look to the people of Beowulf, or any planet considering withdrawing from the SL, if Beowulf requested help and Manticore did nothing but let the SLN obliterate them? Do you think that this would fill these other planets with the courage and confidence to leave the SL??

StealthSeeker wrote:Just as a tactical question....

In Manticore's defense of the Beowulf terminus, and assuming that the terminus is outside of the hyper limit, how practical would it be to keep half of the available fleet in hyperspace. This way if the terminus is attacked a ship could hyper out to the concealed fleet with scan info and have that hidden fleet jump into normal space flanking the attacking fleet. Wouldn't that make life very miserable for any attackers?

I'm not sure that this would be any better than just having the ships there already. The situation is different if you can trick the enemy into crossing the hyper-limit before the flanking force shows up. But when the enemy is in open space near the terminus, I think it would be better for the extra ships to already be there, already linked into the defensive network and ready to fire along with the rest of the defending ships.

I can buy that. Full integration is a lot harder and requires a huge amount of both work and trust.

StealthSeeker wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:It doesn't matter if Beowulf calls for help - the SL will claim that the fleet was there to intimidate Beowulf into voting for secession. The fact that there is not truth to that, or that the SLN was there to in fact intimidate Beowulf into voting against secession (or to force that result) is irrelevant. This is a battle for the perceptions of a number of the members of the League - Manticore to encourage them to secede, the mandarins to keep them from doing so. Truth or reality has very little to do with this battle.

In ART in Honor's "wedding conversation" one of the main considerations regarding "browbeating" or the perception there of, had to do with the perception of the people on Beowulf itself and how it would effect their vote. Who cares about the Mandarins, they are always going to make up some sort of excuse. As far as I am concerned its all about the perception of the people on Beowulf and how they vote.

And to look at things from the opposite side of the mirror, how would it look to the people of Beowulf, or any planet considering withdrawing from the SL, if Beowulf requested help and Manticore did nothing but let the SLN obliterate them? Do you think that this would fill these other planets with the courage and confidence to leave the SL??

No one is suggesting that the Manticoran forces should ignore a request for help. The concern is over having the Manticoran ships that close to begin with--especially since we don't think the Beowulfan defenders need Manticoran assistance. Honor apparently doesn't think so either.

Hi SWM,

I'm not sure about your statement here. In that wedding conversation it is Honor who is wishing to put Invictuses as a visible deterent.

I might be mistaken on this next one, but I think that the concern about not intimidating voters is directed toward the voting public of Beowulf, not the League. In short after the vote, there is no reason not to move in with a task force strong enough to protect Beowulf's infrastructure. In fact it would be insane not to since Beowulf is going to be the GA's primary sourse for keyhole 2s to be wed to ships manufactured in Haven along with being the GA's primary sourse of missiles.

As for what the League thinks, the GA which after the vote will include Beowulf will be at war with the League so it seems to me that worry over the Mandarin's tender sensitivities is probably passe.

Don

SWM wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:In ART in Honor's "wedding conversation" one of the main considerations regarding "browbeating" or the perception there of, had to do with the perception of the people on Beowulf itself and how it would effect their vote. Who cares about the Mandarins, they are always going to make up some sort of excuse. As far as I am concerned its all about the perception of the people on Beowulf and how they vote.

And to look at things from the opposite side of the mirror, how would it look to the people of Beowulf, or any planet considering withdrawing from the SL, if Beowulf requested help and Manticore did nothing but let the SLN obliterate them? Do you think that this would fill these other planets with the courage and confidence to leave the SL??

No one is suggesting that the Manticoran forces should ignore a request for help. The concern is over having the Manticoran ships that close to begin with--especially since we don't think the Beowulfan defenders need Manticoran assistance. Honor apparently doesn't think so either.

Well,... when I read the "wedding conversation" Honor would have a lot more belief in Beowulf not needing help if the mycroft system was fully installed. Which it might not be until after the vote. Until mycroft if fully on line, or the vote is taken, which ever comes first, Manticore needs to be ready to quickly and effectively respond to a request for help.

StealthSeeker wrote:
Well,... when I read the "wedding conversation" Honor would have a lot more belief in Beowulf not needing help if the mycroft system was fully installed. Which it might not be until after the vote. Until mycroft if fully on line, or the vote is taken, which ever comes first, Manticore needs to be ready to quickly and effectively respond to a request for help.

Hi StealthSeeker,

I agree. Nobody really thinks that the SLN would be able to get away with an attack on more than a very temporary basis, but even temporary could be hard on the orbital infrastructure. So the question becomes how to secure the orbitals prior to the vote and at the same time honor the political concerns expressed.

Don

SWM wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:Just as a tactical question....

In Manticore's defense of the Beowulf terminus, and assuming that the terminus is outside of the hyper limit, how practical would it be to keep half of the available fleet in hyperspace. This way if the terminus is attacked a ship could hyper out to the concealed fleet with scan info and have that hidden fleet jump into normal space flanking the attacking fleet. Wouldn't that make life very miserable for any attackers?

I'm not sure that this would be any better than just having the ships there already. The situation is different if you can trick the enemy into crossing the hyper-limit before the flanking force shows up. But when the enemy is in open space near the terminus, I think it would be better for the extra ships to already be there, already linked into the defensive network and ready to fire along with the rest of the defending ships.

If it were 2 fleets meeting at some random point in space I think I would agree with you. However, in the defense of a terminus the attacking fleet must move on a fixed point in space much like a planet. And I would think that a fleet that is out flanked is very vulnerable in it's defense. The only thing about attacking a terminus is that if you do get flanked, you can hyper out

n7axw wrote:Hi SWM,

I'm not sure about your statement here. In that wedding conversation it is Honor who is wishing to put Invictuses as a visible deterent.

I might be mistaken on this next one, but I think that the concern about not intimidating voters is directed toward the voting public of Beowulf, not the League. In short after the vote, there is no reason not to move in with a task force strong enough to protect Beowulf's infrastructure. In fact it would be insane not to since Beowulf is going to be the GA's primary sourse for keyhole 2s to be wed to ships manufactured in Haven along with being the GA's primary sourse of missiles.

As for what the League thinks, the GA which after the vote will include Beowulf will be at war with the League so it seems to me that worry over the Mandarin's tender sensitivities is probably passe.

Don

Note that statement--a visible deterrent. Honor wasn't worried that Beowulf wouldn't be able to defend itself. She was worried that the SLN would not be able to see that Beowulf could defend itself.

Having a relief force hiding in hyperspace does not help the SLN see that Beowulf can defend itself. And Honor apparently did not doubt that Beowulf would be able to defend itself even without the extra ships. It was a VISIBLE deterrent she wanted, to keep the League from going into Beowulf's hyper-limit in the first place.