Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what the missiles passed through Mesa on the occasions you mentioned but that is no comment at all on where they originated.

Ah, but there is a question...

We only have the recipients POV and shipping documents can be forged or altered. The Felix WHJ is apparently close to Mesa as well as Mannerheim. A ship coming from Darius would approach a destination from approximately the same bearing as from Mesa and if the shipping documents said they come from Mesa then nobody would question a "minor navigation error" -- if anything odd was noticed in the first place.

In the case of the PNE's cataphracts, there wouldn't even be proper shipping documents, just an inventory. "Manpower" wouldn't want any sort of paper trail leading from the PNE to Mesa -- or anywhere else.

We already know that Adm Filareta was wrong about no TIY fabrication at Mesa, there's no reason for a proper conspiracy-nut to believe the shipping documents. Especially when the reader knows the cataphract deliveries to Adm Filareta were ordered by Albrecht.

If the Cataphracts have been comming from Darius then the paper trail is going to dead-end rather quickly. Those provided to PRNE would have just been "delivered" and minimal paperwork would have gone to the PRNE. Just exactly what and who delivered them is an open question as they would have probably been delivered by various ships used for covert ops by the Alignment with or without any nominaly also being used by Manpower or any of it's many subsidiaries.

There is a couple of ways of twisting the thought though. Both PRNE and Fillerta got deliveries of Cataphracts. The shipment of missles to Filerta was by transports/freighters. But who's? And where are they now? Did they show up (with appropirate IFF and other recognition/documents) as from Technodyne? Were they actual Tehchodyne ships or subcontract shipping for the delivery? Were they SLN (or supposed to be SLN) Auxiluraies or contract freighters?

I say ships because they had to bring a crapload (that's a technical term) of missles and pods to the how many hundreds of SLN SDs etc with Filerta so I doubt this was one Ammunition Ship load---if the SLN even has anything remotely close to a modern Ammunition Ship such as we have seen Manticore and now Maya using.

So where are the ships that brought the weapons to Filerta? are they still at the rondevous system where the next gathering of SDs against Manticore was to be gathering? They dumped their load of weapons and are just going to be sitting there empty? I don't think so. They would have been expected to go somewhere and get more stuff to deliver somewhere.
Of course, it is POSSIBLE that they, or at least one of them, still had muntions aboard and were tasked to accompany Filerta's fleet train in the direction of Manticore. Not exactly sure what happened to the train- did it accompany Fillerta inside the hyper limit (really really not a good idea but then this is the SLN we are talking about) or was it parked somewhere awaiting a messenger by hyper-capable warship to bring up reloads and replacement parts for Filerta's VICTORIOUS FLEET which could have been reasonably been expected to burn through a LOT of muntions and taking at least some damage in taking the Manticore System?

Likely the ships with loads from Technodyne are long gone and except for a dubious trail of electronic documents routed to Filerta, just where and when those missles and pods were loaded and transhipped to him, there will be no solid trail back though SLN logistics nor any manufacturing points in the SL or it's major suppliers.

My bet is on The Alignment at Darius and they will become much more careful about moving such goods to nominally untracable 3rd and 4th parties for delivery. It is then likely that it will be up to the SL (and the GA and Erwhon and Maya) to reverse engineer any surviving Cataphracts after suitable analysis to attempt to find out where the components were manufactured. Just one more thread dangling in the wind.

Fox2! wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:The first navy or SDF to use anything close to the Spider drive where it becomes public is going to get really close attention from Manticore, Haven, Grayson (who would like to apply a Test to them) and a few other people.

And the Test will be The Question: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Onion? With treecats wearing little Dominican habits.

You know, its going to be terrible if someone ever develops the ability to lie to Treecats, or otherwise deceive their telepathy. Seriously, just make whatever outlandish claims you wish and they'd believe you.

"I have a weapon that turns stars into black holes from light centuries away. By the rules of war, targeting extra-planetary energy generation is allowed. Here are your surrender terms."

Or just murder someone and then when all the forensics and computer monitoring points to you just go "Wasn't me."

It would be like The Invention of Lying.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what the missiles passed through Mesa on the occasions you mentioned but that is no comment at all on where they originated.

Ah, but there is a question...

We only have the recipients POV and shipping documents can be forged or altered. The Felix WHJ is apparently close to Mesa as well as Mannerheim. A ship coming from Darius would approach a destination from approximately the same bearing as from Mesa and if the shipping documents said they come from Mesa then nobody would question a "minor navigation error" -- if anything odd was noticed in the first place.

In the case of the PNE's cataphracts, there wouldn't even be proper shipping documents, just an inventory. "Manpower" wouldn't want any sort of paper trail leading from the PNE to Mesa -- or anywhere else.

We already know that Adm Filareta was wrong about no TIY fabrication at Mesa, there's no reason for a proper conspiracy-nut to believe the shipping documents. Especially when the reader knows the cataphract deliveries to Adm Filareta were ordered by Albrecht.

Why would Albrecht need a paper trail? He just snaps his fingers and things pop into existence... Besides who will call him to account?

Don

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n7axw wrote:[

Why would Albrecht need a paper trail? He just snaps his fingers and things pop into existence... Besides who will call him to account?

Don

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There is always a paper (well, now probably electronic) trail. People get paid, etc. And providing missiles for the fleet will be paid for by the League.

That's why they almost certainly did NOT come from Darius. That planet is also hidden from the League. Possibly more than even from the Manties.

Added to that, Technodyne is pretty much on the outside of the onion. It's been targeted by people inside the League for the mess at Monica. It does a lot of nasty things.

Darius is easily the most important secret of the MAlign. Why get involved at all in the whole mess? There are plenty of other planets.

Yes, there are a lot of missiles but we know that until the attack on Manticore, they were providing all they needed. Technodyne has a lot of places they can use. All it would take is the capture and interrogation of a Technodyne pilot to find out where Darius is. And one rather large and another rather tough agent could wind up there.

n7axw wrote:Why would Albrecht need a paper trail? He just snaps his fingers and things pop into existence... Besides who will call him to account?

Don

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The paper trail would be needed for the recipients.

Who is going to call him to account depends on what you believe about the afterlife.

ldwechsler wrote:

n7axw wrote:[

There is always a paper (well, now probably electronic) trail. People get paid, etc. And providing missiles for the fleet will be paid for by the League.

That's why they almost certainly did NOT come from Darius. That planet is also hidden from the League. Possibly more than even from the Manties.

Added to that, Technodyne is pretty much on the outside of the onion. It's been targeted by people inside the League for the mess at Monica. It does a lot of nasty things.

Darius is easily the most important secret of the MAlign. Why get involved at all in the whole mess? There are plenty of other planets.

Yes, there are a lot of missiles but we know that until the attack on Manticore, they were providing all they needed. Technodyne has a lot of places they can use. All it would take is the capture and interrogation of a Technodyne pilot to find out where Darius is. And one rather large and another rather tough agent could wind up there.

They don't have to come from Technodyne or a Technodyne factory. They just have to be delivered to ships (from somewhere else) or to an warehouse/terminal location for any number of companies or syatems and then be shipped to the end-user. They can be listed (and marked) from Technodyne. They might even be picked up by either Technodyne transports or ships of companies that regulary transport things for Technodnye for deliver to X. The paperwork is what directs the shipments and the transport vessels mostly don't have to know much beyond they have to pick up Q at location K and deliver it to location T. They will be told/contracted for when to pick up and delivery.

Freighter Casandra's Story taking a load of bulk grain and misc manufacturing equipment for the Slabovian System? When you get there (by x date) pick up a shipment at the Slabovian 4 warehouse platform from Acme Safety Equipment and deliver it to East Stopping Bush System to the Quatermaster of the SLN base and logistics cernter on station 9 3/4 (pay NO attention to any markings that might look like they may have come from Technocyne, their political situation is still a bit sticky but somebody really needs this stuff and there is a little something extra for you if you can shave two days off the transit time.). Pament on delivery through the usual channels- see documents and bills of lading.
---Slabovia got this stuff freighted in by some contract hauler they hadn't seen before but they then it picked up a load of stuff through one of the independent freight brokers bound for XSY and then Q73 and went on about their business. Papers looked fine, fees including bonded warehouse rent (and the ususal gratuities) paid drawn on Bank of New Madrid, and no, we never had a ship from New Canaan come through here but the Judean League papers matched the exemplars in the SL Customs files. What could be a problem with that.......

It seems to me thee was some concern about missiles Technodyne was supplying to someone being way too similar to the MAlign's very similar ones. Detweiler Chandler Service probably arranged the missile shipment to Filareta, but they furnished Technodyne's missiles.

Brigade XO wrote:
They don't have to come from Technodyne or a Technodyne factory. They just have to be delivered to ships (from somewhere else) or to an warehouse/terminal location for any number of companies or syatems and then be shipped to the end-user. They can be listed (and marked) from Technodyne. They might even be picked up by either Technodyne transports or ships of companies that regulary transport things for Technodnye for deliver to X. The paperwork is what directs the shipments and the transport vessels mostly don't have to know much beyond they have to pick up Q at location K and deliver it to location T. They will be told/contracted for when to pick up and delivery.

Freighter Casandra's Story taking a load of bulk grain and misc manufacturing equipment for the Slabovian System? When you get there (by x date) pick up a shipment at the Slabovian 4 warehouse platform from Acme Safety Equipment and deliver it to East Stopping Bush System to the Quatermaster of the SLN base and logistics cernter on station 9 3/4 (pay NO attention to any markings that might look like they may have come from Technocyne, their political situation is still a bit sticky but somebody really needs this stuff and there is a little something extra for you if you can shave two days off the transit time.). Pament on delivery through the usual channels- see documents and bills of lading.
---Slabovia got this stuff freighted in by some contract hauler they hadn't seen before but they then it picked up a load of stuff through one of the independent freight brokers bound for XSY and then Q73 and went on about their business. Papers looked fine, fees including bonded warehouse rent (and the ususal gratuities) paid drawn on Bank of New Madrid, and no, we never had a ship from New Canaan come through here but the Judean League papers matched the exemplars in the SL Customs files. What could be a problem with that.......

I seen to remember a conversation where David said that most break bulk shipping goes through centralized hubs. If you aren't filling a freighter with Qupie dolls, you would go down the street to the local Galactic Parcel Service office and send your shipment of dolls through them. They would place it on the first passing contracted freighter going to the local GPS hub, or the GPS hub in the direction of shipment's destination. Once the freighter reached GPS Hub planet A, the shipment would be offloaded to the warehouse and then transshipped to the next freighter going to GPS Hub Planet B, and so on until the shipment reachs it destination.

So if a shipment is not on a specially chartered ship, nor fills a ship, chances are it has passed through 3 or more freighters whose only common allegiance is a subcontract to a parcel servce.

Theemile wrote:I seen to remember a conversation where David said that most break bulk shipping goes through centralized hubs. If you aren't filling a freighter with Qupie dolls, you would go down the street to the local Galactic Parcel Service office and send your shipment of dolls through them. They would place it on the first passing contracted freighter going to the local GPS hub, or the GPS hub in the direction of shipment's destination. Once the freighter reached GPS Hub planet A, the shipment would be offloaded to the warehouse and then transshipped to the next freighter going to GPS Hub Planet B, and so on until the shipment reachs it destination.

So if a shipment is not on a specially chartered ship, nor fills a ship, chances are it has passed through 3 or more freighters whose only common allegiance is a subcontract to a parcel servce.

And for obvious reasons wormhole termini (Being choke points where shipping already has to concentrate) are one natural location for these hubs.

So Lacoon II not only denied use of the wormholes the SLN flagged shipping, but also would have disrupted many of their existing shipping hubs.