"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

Manticore’s Gift-class superdreadnought
(Note: Specification reflects base class only)
Mass: 7,187,250 tons
Acceleration: 417.5 G (4.094 kps²)
Broadside: 36M, 12L, 12G, 28CM, 24PD

Scientist-class
Mass: 6,800,000
Acceleration: 422G
Broadside: 32M, 24L, 26G, 16CM, 32PD

munroburton wrote:The tech disparity wasn't as great back then. The People's Navy in 1905 had way more operational experience than the SLN in 1920 and were able to design their latest classes accordingly. The combat paradigm they were designed for was still valid.

Manticore’s Gift-class superdreadnought
(Note: Specification reflects base class only)
Mass: 7,187,250 tons
Acceleration: 417.5 G (4.094 kps²)
Broadside: 36M, 12L, 12G, 28CM, 24PD

Scientist-class
Mass: 6,800,000
Acceleration: 422G
Broadside: 32M, 24L, 26G, 16CM, 32PD

Textev gives launcher cycle times for the ex-PN SDs as ~20 seconds. The Sollies have 35-second cycle times on their newest launchers and 45 seconds on their older ones.

munroburton wrote:The tech disparity wasn't as great back then. The People's Navy in 1905 had way more operational experience than the SLN in 1920 and were able to design their latest classes accordingly. The combat paradigm they were designed for was still valid.

Manticore’s Gift-class superdreadnought
(Note: Specification reflects base class only)
Mass: 7,187,250 tons
Acceleration: 417.5 G (4.094 kps²)
Broadside: 36M, 12L, 12G, 28CM, 24PD

Scientist-class
Mass: 6,800,000
Acceleration: 422G
Broadside: 32M, 24L, 26G, 16CM, 32PD

Textev gives launcher cycle times for the ex-PN SDs as ~20 seconds. The Sollies have 35-second cycle times on their newest launchers and 45 seconds on their older ones.

JonathanS wrote:And there wasn't a stockpile of superior wallets mothballed in reserve, and Manticire was still fairly early in their yard expansions, (and Grayson was still building their yards) so couldn't afford to divert capability to equip Grayson with wallers.
So with a more militarily comparable design they let Grayson take the costs of refitting the, for service. But the refits were relatively minor; mostly just repairs and a gut and replace of the ECM equipment. IIRC all the missile mounts, cm tubes, PDLCs, and sensor were retained (except for destroyed ones that had to be replaced)

Grayson was just lucky that the threat environment was such that these more difficult to maintain ships were still capable combat units (and that Manticore was in a temporary production bottleneck that meant they had significant numbers of trained and experienced officers and crew that there weren't yet RMN ships for. (So it wasn't a real reduction of their military capability to loan them all the Grayson the help them gain the experience needed to effectively use their new SDs; not to mention simply fill their manning tables until more GSN personnel could be trained and seasoned)


And hey, if some world wants to take the Scientists on an as is basis, without RMN support, training, or personnel I'm happy to let them try. I tend to think the environment has changed enough that that world would be better off looking to other options; but that's their funeral.

Theemile wrote:David ( the author) has even commented on this and specifically said that the situation in 1920 is not the same as it was in 1905. Everyone was using variations of the same theme in 1905, since then the Manty tech advantage has made its construction quite different than the galactic "standard", and every other independant combatant in the Havenite sector wars have developed their own path.

My previous signature was from that post, quoting David saying that the SLN SDs were useless.

RedBaron wrote:TO ALL YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO KEEP MAKING EXCUSES WHY THE SOLLY SD'S CAN'T/SHOULDN'T BE REFITTED....

Why were the Peep Wallers refitted by Grayson then instead of just being shoved into their sun?

Saying something can't be done, or that there's no point trying, only shows your own lack of intelligence.

RedBaron wrote:TO ALL YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO KEEP MAKING EXCUSES WHY THE SOLLY SD'S CAN'T/SHOULDN'T BE REFITTED....

Why were the Peep Wallers refitted by Grayson then instead of just being shoved into their sun?

Saying something can't be done, or that there's no point trying, only shows your own lack of intelligence.

Theemile wrote:David ( the author) has even commented on this and specifically said that the situation in 1920 is not the same as it was in 1905. Everyone was using variations of the same theme in 1905, since then the Manty tech advantage has made its construction quite different than the galactic "standard", and every other independant combatant in the Havenite sector wars have developed their own path.

My previous signature was from that post, quoting David saying that the SLN SDs were useless.

RedBaron wrote:TO ALL YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO KEEP MAKING EXCUSES WHY THE SOLLY SD'S CAN'T/SHOULDN'T BE REFITTED....

Why were the Peep Wallers refitted by Grayson then instead of just being shoved into their sun?

Saying something can't be done, or that there's no point trying, only shows your own lack of intelligence.

MaxxQ wrote:I guess that means you are calling the author of this series lazy and that he lacks intelligence.

No one here has said that any modifications hertofore proposed for the SLN wallers CAN'T be done, or that there's no point to it. What most of us have been saying is that it is IMPRACTICAL to do anything like that. Grayson and Manticore are both trying to rebuild their infrastructure to build their OWN ships. They don't have the time, money, yard space, or manpower to waste modifying these tubs. They don't even have the manpower to ferry them elsewhere to get worked on by someone else.

A Rising Thunder, Chapter 31 wrote:“Mr. Permanent Senior Undersecretary,” Kingsford said flatly, “any ‘additional fleet actions’ could only be one-sided massacres. Even assuming what Harrington said to Filareta in the recordings they’ve sent us represents a full statement of their capabilities, without holding any nasty tactical surprises in reserve, we simply can’t match them at this time. There probably hasn’t been this great an imbalance in combat power since the introduction of the machine-gun put an end to massed infantry assaults.”
Kolokoltsov’s eyes widened, despite himself, at the frankness of that response. It was refreshingly—and utterly—different from anything Rajampet had ever said.
“It’s really that bad?” he asked, curious to see how far are Kingsford would go.
“It’s probably worse than that, frankly, especially with Haven added to the equation,” the acting CNO said unflinchingly. “For all intents and purposes, the Reserve has just become several billion tons of scrap material. The superdreadnoughts we have mothballed are the wrong ships for this war, and I don’t see any way the existing hulls could be refitted to turn them into effective combatants.”

Vince wrote:I realize that the SLN is considered primarily as a collection of idiots by most of the characters in the Honorverse in a position to properly judge it, but we (the readers) have seen a few individuals with functional brains, albeit mostly in lower level positions--which doesn't apply to Kingsford, he seems to be one of the very few exceptions to that rule by both possessing a functional brain (and willing to actually use it, when provided with information that doesn't fit into the preconceived notions of the SLN status quo) as well as being in a position to actually implement decisions (at the top of the SLN ranks).

Duckk wrote:

RedBaron wrote:TO ALL YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO KEEP MAKING EXCUSES WHY THE SOLLY SD'S CAN'T/SHOULDN'T BE REFITTED....

Why were the Peep Wallers refitted by Grayson then instead of just being shoved into their sun?

Saying something can't be done, or that there's no point trying, only shows your own lack of intelligence.

That's uncalled for. Discuss the merits of the topic with a modicum of decorum, or earn a vacation from the board.