Honorverse ramblings and musings

JeffEngel wrote:

cthia wrote:Do you think it's possible that the MAlign has solved the regen problem in some people?

I think they're been able to stick to genome designs that avoid the problem, and their solution is to cut short the reproductive legacy, eventually, of everyone with a regen problem. Solving it for people who already live with the problem would be an accidental spin-off, or possibly something they did as a Plan B if they found that some lines they really, really want just won't regen no matter how hard they fiddle (consistent with preserving what they really, really want) and they discovered a regen-aversion treatment for them.

Otherwise - sure, I wouldn't be surprised if some other important and useful discoveries have been or will be made by the Alignment's scientists. They're clever, well-supported people. Unless clever, well-supported people are pointed narrowly at impossible things or hopelessly bad things, they will chug out beautiful and/or useful things. Dictators, evil sorts, and disturbed sorts will often enough point brilliant researchers right at the Stupid Wall and demand specific results, but the rest of the time, even they aren't providing instructions and oversight guaranteed to make a mess of things.

Interesting Jeff. Would there be a genome design that would/could avoid the problem? And if there is - and if they could so easily avoid the problem - then wouldn't that suggest that the problem has been specifically isolated therefore applicable to solving the regen problem across all of humanity?

It all seems so ironic. "You're sort of a crazy lot. But thank you for your breakthroughs in science, medicine, technology..."

At any rate, even if they haven't cracked that nut, I would imagine that their amassed research would lead to monumental breakthroughs in both science and medicine.

Would the morals, scruples and values of the Haven sector prevent use of breakthroughs from the MAlign, in the same sense that blood diamonds are frowned upon and furs from animals that didn't die of natural (by nature) causes?

I wonder what hidden talents some of the MAlign may have? Like skin that changes similar to a chameleon - that camouflages. And able to live in otherwise unlivable systems far beyond the harshness of a Gryphon.

Zoos in the Honorverse has to be an amazing adventure. Life forms from all over the galaxy. Missing from the collection of course are treecats.

I wonder if dinosaurs exist on any planet. Or was the asteroid or comet that hit Earth large enough to kill off dinosaurs all over the universe? lol

Aside:
IIRC the size of the mosquitoes on Hades, I think you had to kill them with pulsers? lol

After all this time, I thought the GSN Honor Harrington was the first ship named in honor of Honor. But it wasn't... it had to have been the ship of her snotty cruise - the HMS War Maiden or it was a very interesting coincidence. Talk about a ship getting under her skin.

Can you fully imagine the excrement hitting the fan behind the scenes on a planet that has just had unfriendly visitors come over the hyper wall? The deafening planetary alarms. HD interruptions. Wrist watches going off. Phones blowing up. Aircars rushing to land and/or return home. Airbuses full of kids trying to follow procedure amidst panicking students. Dangerous plants shutting down, etc. Can anyone else conceive of any other planetary effects of unscheduled visitors coming over the hyper wall?

I can only imagine how Honor's Cutworm Operation of in and out and in and out of inhabited systems for weeks was driving the planet crazy. Sure, we know what effect it was having on the Peep navy. But I never imagined until now the hustling, bustling and rustling there must be, going on on the planet.

At All Costs

"They'll be coming into range of Sphinx in another ten minutes or so, Ma'am," Smithson said quietly.

"A good point." She nodded. "But that means the defense pods deployed around Sphinx are going to be coming into range of them, too, and the system reconnaissance platforms are going to give the defense pods very good accuracy."

"But if they open fire, the Peeps will return it," Latrell pointed out.

"I know," Kuzak agreed. "I've been thinking about that."

She considered numbers and ranges, then turned to Communications.

"Franklin, contact Admiral Caparelli. Tell him I recommend that the Sphinx defenses not fire on these people unless and until they launch against Sphinx."

"Yes, Ma'am," Lieutenant Bradshaw replied.

"Are you sure about that, Ma'am?" Smithson asked. Kuzak looked at him, and he looked back levelly. After all, one of a chief of staff's jobs was to play devil's advocate. "If they're going to bombard the planet, letting them get the first launch off unopposed is likely to cost us," he pointed out.

"But as Judson's just pointed out, if they aren't prepared to bombard the planet and the near-planet yards, and the orbital defenses open fire, they may go ahead and return it," Kuzak responded. "And they have been hammered hard. If Sphinx doesn't fire on them, they're probably going to reserve their fire for us, since we're obviously a much greater threat. Under the circumstances, I think it's worth risking letting them have one launch against the defenses, now that they're all on-line. Especially if they decide not to launch."

"Yes, Ma'am."

Ok, I'm not quite sure I understand this logic. Is the fear of wreckage hitting Sphinx the reason behind this logic?

They're system defense pods and the system is under attack. If the enemy fleet is in range then why not engage? This may be their only shot at them. If victorious they can send in a hail of missiles out of range of, and on a ballistic course. Plus it could save some of Third fleet. No?

Or is this another one of kzt's sentiments of a cracked-up Kuzak?

Why risk poking the bear? Statistically, if Second Fleet fires, something is going to get through the near planet defenses, at which point you're going to lose much of the yards. If Tourville doesn't intend to fire to begin with, why provoke him into doing so? Third Fleet coming up behind has the strength to punch out the weakened Second Fleet by itself, so it doesn't need the system defense pods to chip in. The reward versus the risk isn't really worth it.

cthia wrote:Ok, I'm not quite sure I understand this logic. Is the fear of wreckage hitting Sphinx the reason behind this logic?

They're system defense pods and the system is under attack. If the enemy fleet is in range then why not engage? This may be their only shot at them. If victorious they can send in a hail of missiles out of range of, and on a ballistic course. Plus it could save some of Third fleet. No?

Or is this another one of kzt's sentiments of a cracked-up Kuzak?

There is no indication that they ever started evacuation of the orbital platforms and evidence in MoH that they did not. You will have to ask David as to who came up with that plan, but essentially, under the most likely set of results, everyone in orbit dies. While the platforms have bubble shields and missile defenses, tens of thousands of MDMs is far outside the design threat parameters of an unarmored orbital structure.

The fear is that you actually hit the planet, but why that would even be a problem is related to how David sees missiles working, and his model breaks down outside of light second range. (The control loop is so long that it matters not at all if a ship is "controlling" a missile at all or not) so I'm not sure how this stuff is supposed to work. If you hit the planet with a missile it's a very bad day for them. And it would cause a PR issue for the RH at the very least.

cthia wrote:After all this time, I thought the GSN Honor Harrington was the first ship named in honor of Honor. But it wasn't... it had to have been the ship of her snotty cruise - the HMS War Maiden or it was a very interesting coincidence. Talk about a ship getting under her skin.

it was an interesting choice of name given who she would become.

of course that tale was written after about book 6, so by that time in universe and in the real world it was more then a little apparent that Honour was here to stay and she would get into a lot more interesting situations before her time was over.

cthia wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I think they're been able to stick to genome designs that avoid the problem [inability for some people to regen -ed], and their solution is to cut short the reproductive legacy, eventually, of everyone with a regen problem. Solving it for people who already live with the problem would be an accidental spin-off, or possibly something they did as a Plan B if they found that some lines they really, really want just won't regen no matter how hard they fiddle (consistent with preserving what they really, really want) and they discovered a regen-aversion treatment for them.

Interesting Jeff. Would there be a genome design that would/could avoid the problem? And if there is - and if they could so easily avoid the problem - then wouldn't that suggest that the problem has been specifically isolated therefore applicable to solving the regen problem across all of humanity?

It all seems so ironic. "You're sort of a crazy lot. But thank you for your breakthroughs in science, medicine, technology..."

We already know that there is a specific gene group (dominant, but not part of the "locked" portion of the Meyerdahl modifications) that's responsible for Honor being unable to regenerate. And most likely that's the same gene group that would cause the issue in anybody.

Alison was telling Emily about this in chapter 16 of At All Costs; when she was explaining how, with her intervention, she could guarantee that a child of Emily and Hamish wouldn't be born without the ability to regenerate.


If she could locate the sequence then presumably so could the MAlign. But even if they couldn't they're more than capable of identifying once a person is born with that inability and simply not using them in their breeding program. So I agree they had no specific reason to look into a post-birth gene therepy to corrected for inability to regen - they can much easier simply avoid having that issue get permanently into their various breedling lines.

cthia wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I think they're been able to stick to genome designs that avoid the problem, and their solution is to cut short the reproductive legacy, eventually, of everyone with a regen problem. Solving it for people who already live with the problem would be an accidental spin-off, or possibly something they did as a Plan B if they found that some lines they really, really want just won't regen no matter how hard they fiddle (consistent with preserving what they really, really want) and they discovered a regen-aversion treatment for them.

Otherwise - sure, I wouldn't be surprised if some other important and useful discoveries have been or will be made by the Alignment's scientists. They're clever, well-supported people. Unless clever, well-supported people are pointed narrowly at impossible things or hopelessly bad things, they will chug out beautiful and/or useful things. Dictators, evil sorts, and disturbed sorts will often enough point brilliant researchers right at the Stupid Wall and demand specific results, but the rest of the time, even they aren't providing instructions and oversight guaranteed to make a mess of things.

Interesting Jeff. Would there be a genome design that would/could avoid the problem? And if there is - and if they could so easily avoid the problem - then wouldn't that suggest that the problem has been specifically isolated therefore applicable to solving the regen problem across all of humanity?

There's no principled answer to that: it depends on "facts" about the human genome that depend critically on authorial decisions writing fiction. I doubt anything in the Honorverse dictates, even encourages, an answer one way or another. It's not, at that point, about Alignment priorities or values.

It all seems so ironic. "You're sort of a crazy lot. But thank you for your breakthroughs in science, medicine, technology..."

At any rate, even if they haven't cracked that nut, I would imagine that their amassed research would lead to monumental breakthroughs in both science and medicine.

Would the morals, scruples and values of the Haven sector prevent use of breakthroughs from the MAlign, in the same sense that blood diamonds are frowned upon and furs from animals that didn't die of natural (by nature) causes?

A better analogy would be disinterest in medical results from Nazi experimentation on prisoners of various sorts - making use of that sort of thing amounts to a form of tacit approval of the methods. In addition, yes, there's a disinterest in providing a market for more such products - "go ahead, do it - we'll hold our noses and take it or buy it, so you can count on fame/money/professional satisfaction" - that applies in the case of merchandise procured through means you don't want to be taken as accepting.

The Alignment's medical research has been made possible not just through the principled disagreement with the Beowulf Code, but with generations of people designed, born, sold, used, abused, and killed as property. Reaping the benefits of that may involve a degree of complicity beyond what decent people care to accept.

I wonder what hidden talents some of the MAlign may have? Like skin that changes similar to a chameleon - that camouflages. And able to live in otherwise unlivable systems far beyond the harshness of a Gryphon.

Heck, that would be within the Beowulf Code's tolerances as a goal and result, although the Alignment's researchers have had the advantage of being willing to maim and kill however many slaves it would take to get there.

Chances are, most of what the Alignment has secret are (1) things for strategic uses against other people, in the service of the Alignment's goals - all the things that make Alignment bodyguards so dangerous, and (2) "general improvements" on humanity - the core of the star line designs - in accordance with the Detweiler Plan and in the face of the Beowulf Code. I suppose human stealth skins may be among the first, but one that would work well enough to be worth the bother for a human being is doubtful. (They'd go with clothes for that effect.)