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Solarian Military Catchup Attempts

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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:44 pm

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At last reading, I recall at least some of the SLN command staff sent back on parole after the various battles were put in places like the Mars base and were not being allowed to talk to anybody. That will probably change.

Side idea: how long will it take till somebody in the SLN or the bureaucracy decideds they can make a real big bundle of credits by selling SDs and other things out of that really bad deathtrap reserve fleet pile of ships? Sell an SD and find a hole to crawl into and pull the edge in behind you. :)
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by james99   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:12 pm

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I suspect that by the time SL can get another fleet organized to attack Beowulf that they might have their system defense ready for Crandall-2. That might prove a terrible shock to them.
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by stewart   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:06 am

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n7axw wrote:It seems to me we need to allow for the possibility that the idiots will soon be purged from the gene pool. What will be left will be people of reasonable intelligence who may be uninformed, but also smart enough to understand that they are uninformed, needing better info.

The drama that remains is whether or not these people are able to cope with the mess the idiots have left in their wake.

I don't expect them to be able to salvage the whole thing. If there is anything left of the League, it will be dramatically reduced in size and scope.

Don


-------------------

Hence the concern about sold off "surplus" new-built ships (Tiberian / Refuge) or "transferred for disposal" (Monica).
As the League collapses, many of those "excessed" BC's and CA's will show up in the hands of local warlords (likely part of the RA plan) as various sectors "declare independence" with or without the knowledge and consent of the sector residents. (see Somalia, Eritria and other examples).

-- Stewart
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by lyonheart   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:14 am

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Hi KZT,

I was under the impression that pretty much everything Filaretta had below the wall survived because they weren't part of the missile exchange, because SLN doctrine and practice kept them from getting pods etc.

So they were all ignored and allowed to surrender along with the 70 untouched SD's and all the transports etc.

L


kzt wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:Sure, we all know that's wrong. That at least Shrikes and Ferrets are capable of ripping apart anything below the wall (as long as they have the numbers). But the SLN doesn't automatically have to assume that the CLACs were designed to allow detached offensive action by LACs.

It's pretty obvious from any news reports on BoM that this isn't true. The fact that the Home Fleet LACs killed pretty much everything below the wall that 2nd had is not going to be a huge secret.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by lyonheart   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:33 am

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Hi Don,

Given the size of the SLN, it will take a while. ;)

Since the SLN DD's were able to record the Battle of Saltash (as well as Zunker), I expect copies were quickly transmitted by the 3 DD's to its neighbors, including through the Mesa wormhole to get to Terra ASAP.

Despite it being early in SoF, we have yet to see what Old Chicago's Navy HQ makes of 5 apparent CL's destroying 4 BC's that out mass them by 4-1 in less than 2 minutes at 3 times their range.

However the time to get it to the rest of the SL without wormhole access could take month's, ie after lots more such incidents.

By taking Mesa Mike shuts down quick access by the SLN to that whole lobe of the league and verge, and indirectly encouraging whoever to rebel once they learn of it.

Meanwhile the Lacoon 2 TG's begin isolating and eliminating the FF in their AOR's, which the navy brass won't find out about for month's as well.

The dinosaur will be dead long before its nominal brain finds out.

So intelligent action is asking quite a lot. ;)

L


n7axw wrote:It seems to me we need to allow for the possibility that the idiots will soon be purged from the gene pool. What will be left will be people of reasonable intelligence who may be uninformed, but also smart enough to understand that they are uninformed, needing better info.

The drama that remains is whether or not these people are able to cope with the mess the idiots have left in their wake.

I don't expect them to be able to salvage the whole thing. If there is anything left of the League, it will be dramatically reduced in size and scope.

Don
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by Hutch   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:13 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:Sure, we all know that's wrong. That at least Shrikes and Ferrets are capable of ripping apart anything below the wall (as long as they have the numbers). But the SLN doesn't automatically have to assume that the CLACs were designed to allow detached offensive action by LACs.


kzt wrote:It's pretty obvious from any news reports on BoM that this isn't true. The fact that the Home Fleet LACs killed pretty much everything below the wall that 2nd had is not going to be a huge secret.


lyonheart wrote:Hi KZT,

I was under the impression that pretty much everything Filaretta had below the wall survived because they weren't part of the missile exchange, because SLN doctrine and practice kept them from getting pods etc.

So they were all ignored and allowed to surrender along with the 70 untouched SD's and all the transports etc.
L


I think kzt was referring to the original BOM where the SKM's LAC's went on a 'death ride' to take out the smaller Havenite ships while effectively destroying themselves. News of that should have made it to the ISLN intelligence and someone should have noticed that the Manties' LAC's firepower seemed a bit larger than 'normal' LAC's.

This presupposes that there is an active brain cell somewhere in SLN Intelligence. If so, it has to date been ignored.

But you are right, Lyonheart, in that the SLN in actual practice has only seen LAC's at Spindle (where they played no part in the main action) and 2nd Manticore (where they apparently were in defensive posture only). They have yet to see the "Buttercup" version of LAC's in action...and in MoH, Captain Alice Levinsky, commanding officer of LAC Group 711, said...

But, Levinsky reminded herself coldly, these weren't Havenite superdreadnoughts. They were Sollies, and that was an entirely different kettle of fish. Like the rest of Tenth Fleet's officers, Levinsky had studied the technical data from the captured Solarian battlecruisers attentively, and unless that data was grossly inaccurate, the Sollies' anti-LAC capabilities were even more primitive—a lot more primitive—than the Havenites' had been during Operation Buttercup.

Which suggested all sorts of interesting tactical possibilities to one Alice Levinsky.


I'm still waiting for RFC to deliver on that promise...
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by Dafmeister   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:46 am

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At this point, I'd just remind everyone of the reaction on Haven to the reports of 'super-LACs' after Second Hancock. There's also the lingering effect of the SLN's superiority complex - it doesn't matter what the Manty LACs could do to the RHN at First Manticore, because the RHN are another bunch of neobarbs.
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by n7axw   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:47 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:At this point, I'd just remind everyone of the reaction on Haven to the reports of 'super-LACs' after Second Hancock. There's also the lingering effect of the SLN's superiority complex - it doesn't matter what the Manty LACs could do to the RHN at First Manticore, because the RHN are another bunch of neobarbs.


I would presume that by this time in the plot line, even the SLN is starting to get the hint.

Do you think that they might be starting to show interest in Daud's collection of memos?

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:47 pm

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

Given the size of the SLN, it will take a while. ;)

Since the SLN DD's were able to record the Battle of Saltash (as well as Zunker), I expect copies were quickly transmitted by the 3 DD's to its neighbors, including through the Mesa wormhole to get to Terra ASAP.

Despite it being early in SoF, we have yet to see what Old Chicago's Navy HQ makes of 5 apparent CL's destroying 4 BC's that out mass them by 4-1 in less than 2 minutes at 3 times their range.

However the time to get it to the rest of the SL without wormhole access could take month's, ie after lots more such incidents.

By taking Mesa Mike shuts down quick access by the SLN to that whole lobe of the league and verge, and indirectly encouraging whoever to rebel once they learn of it.


Quite right. Ben Detweiler got a copy of the official dispatches from the dispatch boat Gov. Dueñas sent, but Saltash has to be around a month from Mesa?? We never saw anyone in the League get the news, or respond to it.

Meanwhile the Lacoon 2 TG's begin isolating and eliminating the FF in their AOR's, which the navy brass won't find out about for month's as well.

The dinosaur will be dead long before its nominal brain finds out.

So intelligent action is asking quite a lot. ;)

L


They get the frozen buttercups!

n7axw wrote:It seems to me we need to allow for the possibility that the idiots will soon be purged from the gene pool. What will be left will be people of reasonable intelligence who may be uninformed, but also smart enough to understand that they are uninformed, needing better info.

The drama that remains is whether or not these people are able to cope with the mess the idiots have left in their wake.

I don't expect them to be able to salvage the whole thing. If there is anything left of the League, it will be dramatically reduced in size and scope.

Don


I don't recall any time in history when a devolution into general warfare left anyone around who was "reasonable" -- more likely, it will be just another, different group of idiots.

Rob
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Re: Solarian Military Catchup Attempts
Post by drothgery   » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:17 pm

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kzt wrote:It's pretty obvious from any news reports on BoM that this isn't true. The fact that the Home Fleet LACs killed pretty much everything below the wall that 2nd had is not going to be a huge secret.
Stuff like this is why I tend to think the ineffectiveness of SLN intelligence is more enemy action than incompetence. Manticore is a critical transportation and financial hub. It's one jump away from a core League member. It's been at war for the last two decades, with someone they had been expecting war with for decades before that (and everyone paying the slightest bit of attention knew all of this).

Many of the battles in the Havenite wars were observed by neutral reporters. The debates in the Manticoran Parliament about what to build (and what to scrap or suspend production of) was largely public. If you didn't know warfare had been revolutionized, you were not paying the slightest bit of attention, or actively being diverted.
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