The Author and the Fan: What do we owe each other?

runsforcelery wrote:I will try — operative word being "try" — to get a few additional snippets in. I really prefer to do them myself because I want to make sure that the italics and the boldface are where they are supposed to be.

On that note, my humblest apologies for certainly misappropriating those important constructs in my attempt to transcribe your video snippet. Please know that it pained my heart reading all of the cries for help from those whose native language is not English, or whose hearing is inadequate. It was easy for me to place myself in those posters' shoes, longing for a snippet only to have one huge one delivered unto me in video form in that awful German language.

The video isn't the clearest and even several native English speakers expressed difficulty in understanding it. I suppose the ear that I've developed from my parents' travel decree was instrumental yet again. Yet it was no piece of cake.

My heart ached with each and every plea. The compassion within compelled me. My most humblest and most sincerest apologies to your art. And to you.

Fans who post here or on the Baen website have more access to the writer than the general readership. I wonder whether there is the danger that in listening to us RFC might do things that do not work with the wider readership.
RFC's books are highly detailed and he has the gift of creating the illusion that there is more detail than there actually is. This can lead to some fans coming up with what they think are obvious good ideas that he author knows are not. There are details that the author knows which we do not.
This forum attracts readers who are interested in the nuts and bolts of what is going on and like to speculate about the technology. But a common criticism that I hear of his more recent books is that they have become over detailed and that this disrupts the story.Are fans here encouraging him to put in too much detail, detail which spoils the story for other readers?

JustCurious wrote:Fans who post here or on the Baen website have more access to the writer than the general readership. I wonder whether there is the danger that in listening to us RFC might do things that do not work with the wider readership.
RFC's books are highly detailed and he has the gift of creating the illusion that there is more detail than there actually is. This can lead to some fans coming up with what they think are obvious good ideas that he author knows are not. There are details that the author knows which we do not.
This forum attracts readers who are interested in the nuts and bolts of what is going on and like to speculate about the technology. But a common criticism that I hear of his more recent books is that they have become over detailed and that this disrupts the story.Are fans here encouraging him to put in too much detail, detail which spoils the story for other readers?

That is pretty much part of what I was laying down in my post. There are many ways Weber can choose to wield the quill genteel. But! In opening the box and observing the Schrodinger's cat that his fans demand, he, at least subconsciously, chooses the cat with more detail. In doing so, our quantum demands may force publishings to have light-years in between them. Technology and the internet has let the cat out of the bag err box.

Whereas:
Schrodinger's cat = demand for more detail
box = forum
genteel = less detail


Well, it was just a thought experiment.

JustCurious wrote:Fans who post here or on the Baen website have more access to the writer than the general readership. I wonder whether there is the danger that in listening to us RFC might do things that do not work with the wider readership.
RFC's books are highly detailed and he has the gift of creating the illusion that there is more detail than there actually is. This can lead to some fans coming up with what they think are obvious good ideas that he author knows are not. There are details that the author knows which we do not.
This forum attracts readers who are interested in the nuts and bolts of what is going on and like to speculate about the technology. But a common criticism that I hear of his more recent books is that they have become over detailed and that this disrupts the story.Are fans here encouraging him to put in too much detail, detail which spoils the story for other readers?

No, the “detail” in the last few books wasn’t terribly loved by the majority of commenters here. Personally the only part that annoyed me was the silly space battle between the 5th lancers on horseback and 17th tank regiment.

Another thing that has led to a lot of complaint has been the change in the nature of the stories centered around Honor. They changed to becoming more about the politics than about the fighting.
But this is a necessary consequence of Honor becoming part of the high command from Ashes of victory onward. Many followed her career and wanted to see her succeed. They got their wish but wanted to see her in the same sort of action as in the earlier books. But that would have jarred with many, especially most of those here. Giving them what they wanted would have been contrived.
The growth in the size of science fiction novels has been due to two things. One is authors putting in detail that older authors would have left out. The other is telling a story from more viewpoints.
The amount of detail is a matter of taste. The Honorverse books need more than most but I do think he is overdoing it. I think what is more important is how the detail is introduced. Is it introduced in ways that fits in with the flow of the story?
And the change to a more politically oriented type of story does mean that a story does need to be told from more viewpoints.

Rereading many much loved and well remembered classical space operas isn't necessarily advised, as they come across as simplistic with 2D characters. The craft of writing has moved on.

Daryl wrote:Rereading many much loved and well remembered classical space operas isn't necessarily advised, as they come across as simplistic with 2D characters. The craft of writing has moved on.

Are you saying that Weber has help ruin the reading of the classics by taking the lid off of the detail and developing the character more? I'm not judging your notion, just want to make sure I understand you.

There are two kinds of detail, as far as I'm concerned. There's the inner detail of the storyline which adds the political/geopolitical icing on the cake. Then there's the detail of the tech.

My personal preference is that the latter is expendable in light of a more personal read. But that's simply a subjective statement in the face of my flavor of read. One thing these forums has done is educate me to the flavor of reader who needs that kind of detail. The reader who needs to know the ins and outs and nuts and bolts of the tech.

As far as the political/geopolitical detail is concerned, I think a reader's craving and desire for that is inevitable in a series the length of the Honorverse, when one naturally begins to identify with entire planets and peoples and wonder what makes them tick and how they ended up in the mess they're in, or simply how they came to be. The longer the series, the more natural detail is needed to assuage the curiosity in the reader's cat and to fully appease his kittens.

If I'm honest, I have to admit that after a series is concluded, all of the detail is ultimately needed to make the series more complete, and allow it to endure the ravenous test of time and rereads. The Honorverse won't ever become boring or two dimensional with the inexorable tick of time. Whoever inherits my Honorverse collection will enjoy the read for a lifetime even if they're part of a prolong society.


Almost forgot. I still enjoy two dimensional characters and the old sci-fi. They allow a more intimate read on my part, concentrating less on the tech and allowing the impetus of the story to quickly carry you along. I find it a refreshing wind to the type of sail that floats my boat. An example, the oftentimes ill-received Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard.

JustCurious wrote:Another thing that has led to a lot of complaint has been the change in the nature of the stories centered around Honor. They changed to becoming more about the politics than about the fighting.
But this is a necessary consequence of Honor becoming part of the high command from Ashes of victory onward. Many followed her career and wanted to see her succeed. They got their wish but wanted to see her in the same sort of action as in the earlier books. But that would have jarred with many, especially most of those here. Giving them what they wanted would have been contrived.
The growth in the size of science fiction novels has been due to two things. One is authors putting in detail that older authors would have left out. The other is telling a story from more viewpoints.
The amount of detail is a matter of taste. The Honorverse books need more than most but I do think he is overdoing it. I think what is more important is how the detail is introduced. Is it introduced in ways that fits in with the flow of the story?
And the change to a more politically oriented type of story does mean that a story does need to be told from more viewpoints.

I certainly can admit that I was also miffed at the deviation from an ingredient that worked. If it ain't broke don't fix it. My main attraction in any story is the allure of a strong female character. It is why I purchased the original publishing of OBS for $5 in the first place, even though it has an unappealing, hideous picture of Nimitz staring at me from the cover. I dislike the horror genre and I wasn't sure what OBS wasn't about that, because it wasn't located in a bookstore but in a closeout book bin at a sidewalk sale. But the pic of Honor was compelling, she was female and it was only $5. It turned out to be a real steal. But I digress.

OBS is the first in the series and it is the preferred starting point. It turned out to be my favorite read in all of the Honorverse and probably amongst my global all time favorites. The heroine is female and she kicks ass and takes names. She literally takes names, entering them into her database. LOL

But alas, storyline moved away from our heroine. I think it was due to the series length and some psychological notion only Freud and his colleagues can explain, having to do with an author not wanting to burn his reader out or appearing to be one dimensional and/or unimaginative in his writing. Which isn't possible for this reader. Weber could have force fed me Salamander cooked in many different ways and I'd've pounded the table for more. But that's just me. I can eat Italian every day and not grow tired of it either. Is Honor Italian by any chance? LOL

Then I hear my mother's words reminding me to be mindful of others and I suddenly realize that the author has stories he wants to tell and, well, too much Honor in epic space battles could have burned him out as well.

I must be unusual. I just enjoy a good story and don't bother to try to understand the 'tech' - most of which has to rely on handwavium because we don't have, for example, FTL space flight or graser lenses. And I couldn't care less about strange foreign names because I know how to pronounce the 'genuine' languages, and mutated ones as on Safehold are fun to 'work backwards' to their originals. So Honor is now so senior that she's not personally in combat - so what? We're still reading battle scenes from her friends' and subordinates' viewpoints, and RFC has made it clear that he won't write blood-spattered porn. I simply enjoy whatever he cares to write for us - which is what any real fan will do without carping over minor details.

John Prigent wrote:I must be unusual. I just enjoy a good story and don't bother to try to understand the 'tech' - most of which has to rely on handwavium because we don't have, for example, FTL space flight or graser lenses. And I couldn't care less about strange foreign names because I know how to pronounce the 'genuine' languages, and mutated ones as on Safehold are fun to 'work backwards' to their originals. So Honor is now so senior that she's not personally in combat - so what? We're still reading battle scenes from her friends' and subordinates' viewpoints, and RFC has made it clear that he won't write blood-spattered porn. I simply enjoy whatever he cares to write for us - which is what any real fan will do without carping over minor details.

Oh John. You're simply one of those health nuts with a healthy attitude towards sci-fi. You probably buy your books in the gluten free aisle.

I'm pretty much the same. I simply like the storyline. I like the cavalry coming over the hyper wall in time and could care less for the detail of the tech beyond a single layer under the skin. For example, I appreciate hearing about the development of Apollo, the hellish ECM, LACS and the like. But I won't cry if the detail isn't included. Simply that it works.

BUT! If I may enquire...

What is an episode of Wonder Woman, without, well... Wonder Woman?