Detweiler and Sons

cthia wrote:Indeed. And thanks for supplying the term.

However, there's a distinction that I'm trying to point out. The Electra complex is still the Oedipus complex, just manifested in young girls.

But by definition, this sort of love for the same parent is NOT, by definition, the Oedipus complex.

Perhaps it should be called the Oedipus Rex Complex—for its a dinosaur of a complex.

Not sure holding one's same sex parent as a hero and therefore a natural object of hero worship would have been considered abnormalback when. It certainly cemented my brother's place in our father's heart. And not saying he carried it nearly as far as the Detweiler clones did, either.

WeirdlyWired wrote:

cthia wrote:Indeed. And thanks for supplying the term.

However, there's a distinction that I'm trying to point out. The Electra complex is still the Oedipus complex, just manifested in young girls.

But by definition, this sort of love for the same parent is NOT, by definition, the Oedipus complex.

Perhaps it should be called the Oedipus Rex Complex—for its a dinosaur of a complex.

Not sure holding one's same sex parent as a hero and therefore a natural object of hero worship would have been considered abnormalback when. It certainly cemented my brother's place in our father's heart. And not saying he carried it nearly as far as the Detweiler clones did, either.

You should be sure... that it would NOT have been considered abnormal back when or even now. That is a normal, healthy and expected relationship between a parent and a child. The Oedipus complex deals with the point in which the relationship becomes unhealthy, and abnormal. As it is with the Detweilers—and again, the fact that it isn't a classic case of the Oedipus complex by definition, begs the Freudian hypothesis of what negative additional effect this sort of spin may have on the final outcome.

You are aware that Freud has been consigned to the dumpster of history by the modern psychological community? There are still Freudians around, like there are followers of Carl Jung, but they're currently very far out of the mainstream. "Oedepus the King" (Oedepus Rex) is a great play, but it has relatively little to teach about psychology.

I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

cthia wrote:

SYED wrote:It might simply be a messed up approach to preserving a bloodline, with out the complete ickyness of incest.

The psychology of it all is interesting. Every man wants to be all he can be for his sons. He wants his sons to look up to him. To emulate him. Little wonder Detweiler crafted his sons out of his own loins. He essentially gave them a genetic rib, as Eve received a rib from Adam. The original Detweiler was almost in every way the Malign Adam.

The sons have a hero-worship, a love affair if you will, for their father... is this the countervailing opposite of the Oedipus complex or would it be more accurately renamed as the "Ohedipus complex?" ? shrugs

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

cthia wrote:

SYED wrote:It might simply be a messed up approach to preserving a bloodline, with out the complete ickyness of incest.

The psychology of it all is interesting. Every man wants to be all he can be for his sons. He wants his sons to look up to him. To emulate him. Little wonder Detweiler crafted his sons out of his own loins. He essentially gave them a genetic rib, as Eve received a rib from Adam. The original Detweiler was almost in every way the Malign Adam.

The sons have a hero-worship, a love affair if you will, for their father... is this the countervailing opposite of the Oedipus complex or would it be more accurately renamed as the "Ohedipus complex?" ? shrugs

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

For this reason I am somewhat inclined to believe that there might well also be her daughters, though perhaps fewer of them.

Greentea wrote:I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

There are actually 6 of them. I cannot give the source as I then have to reread half a dozen books.

Hornblower wrote:

Greentea wrote:I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

There are actually 6 of them. I cannot give the source as I then have to reread half a dozen books.

And their names are alphabetical, from Albrecht and Benjamin through to Gervais. I'm pretty sure Benjamin is the new boss, even if only as first amongst equals - and the sons appear to be equally devoted to the Great Cause.

I don't think there'll be an Alignment power struggle.

Greentea wrote:I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

Hornblower wrote:There are actually 6 of them. I cannot give the source as I then have to reread half a dozen books.

munroburton wrote:And their names are alphabetical, from Albrecht and Benjamin through to Gervais. I'm pretty sure Benjamin is the new boss, even if only as first amongst equals - and the sons appear to be equally devoted to the Great Cause.

I don't think there'll be an Alignment power struggle.

Yes. Benjamin, Colin, Daniel, Everett, Franklin and Gervais. He also specified who was going to be in charge in case he didn't make it, although we don't know who that will be.

I was also surprised that Evelina doesn't have any daughters, by whatever process, but there is absolutely no evidence that she does.

However, let us not forget that she is:

a) a True Believer

b) a biologist in her own right, and as cold-blooded as they come [recall the scene where she's chatting with Albrecht while reviewing a report on the weaponisation of nanobiotechnology]

c) chosen for personal compatibility with A, not necessarily biological/genetic compatibility

d) apparently [and despite a & b] rather a motherly sort.

Given her stature, she may well be a member of the LRPB. In any case, I expect that she would have participated in making the decision to clone Albrecht. In fact, ISTR a mention somewhere that the Detweilers are like the Bardasanos in being a fully-designed, in vitro line, but with normal family upbringing instead of being dumped in creches, so it's likely that she never expected her children to be conceived via random mix-and-match. Given her background, as far as that goes, she probably regards that as the stupidest way to do it. If it's best for those children to be pure Albrecht, she may not be at all concerned by the idea.

b & d aren't really the contradiction they seem, BTW. It is, though, evidence of how the 'Manpower option' has poisoned the Alignment from day 1: large-scale slave owners have never been overly troubled by the effects of their actions on others, however much they love their own. [oddly, the evidence is that _small_-scale slaveholders often practically adopt their slaves]

phillies wrote:

cthia wrote:< snip >

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

For this reason I am somewhat inclined to believe that there might well also be her daughters, though perhaps fewer of them.

cthia wrote: [snip]
Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

Missed this post, somhow. Blended families do it all the time, so do adoptive families. and I have a friend that has fostered children and still considers them her children.

Same thing as taking on the hubby's previous kids but without the "baby-mama drama." Unless one tosses in the dysfunction. And even in manpower, slaves raised the decanted infants as theirs. (somewhere in one of the texts)