WAR ROOM

cthia wrote:

Theemile"[qfuote="cthia wrote:What exactly is Michelle's order of battle? Anyone have hard figures on the ready? I think she also has Task Force Talbot.

I didn't realize she had the likes of Terekov and Oversteegen in her mix as well. Potent combo.

It was mentioned several books ago. 20 non-upgraded Medusas, 20 CLACS, 16 Nikes, 12 Sag-Cs, and 5 Rolands were the last solid count. She has since been reinforced with more light units and support ships.

Thanks Theemile. I've seen the numbers on several occasions in various posts, somewhere. And my nonexistent forum secretary is taking a nonexistent vacation. However, I read somewhere that ~ 400 lighter units were slated to join her order of battle. I was wondering if I'd missed somewhere what those definitive numbers were.

And... holy moly! This is a powerful force where over the immediate horizon the only bad guys are Sollies. There are lots of fires she has to put out. She doesn't exactly have to stay concentrated does she?

And what is the disposition of those two or three ammo ships she once had in her order?[/quote]


Actually you can toss in a few more ships. IIRC Terakov's force included 1 carrier 4 cruisers and a squadron of destroyers. My best guess about Tenth Fleet on it's OrBat is as follows;
Modern
20 SD(P)
20 CLAC
12 CA
13 DD plus at least 12 more destroyers to reach stated totals in SoF of 77 ships.

Other probable deployed ships
1 12 ship squadron of Heavy Cruisers
1 12 ship squadron of Light Cruisers
1 Destroyer Flotilla of 24 ships
These ships will be conducting most of the routine patrols on the Northern and Southern Patrols and backing up customs enforcement in the various star systems.

cthia wrote:Lest it has a spoiler tag hailing from SoV, I seem to recall there still remains a sizeable force assembled of SLN origin. Anyone have any hard numbers and disposition of those forces?

And, more importantly, we as readers are aware of that force. Is the GA privy to as well?

With Manticoran yards destroyed, I don't think the GA should take any chances with Erewhon.

If I recall correctly from two or three novels back, at Tangerine, ca. 750 SDs and perhaps a few auxiliaries. This was the follow-on to the Manticore Turkey Shoot. If they attack that battle will be the Lesser Manticore Turkey Shoot and the next battle will be the Greater Manticore Turkey Shoot.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:What exactly is Michelle's order of battle? Anyone have hard figures on the ready? I think she also has Task Force Talbot.

I didn't realize she had the likes of Terekov and Oversteegen in her mix as well. Potent combo.

It was mentioned several books ago. 20 non-upgraded Medusas, 20 CLACS, 16 Nikes, 12 Sag-Cs, and 5 Rolands were the last solid count. She has since been reinforced with more light units and support ships.

cthia wrote:Thanks Theemile. I've seen the numbers on several occasions in various posts, somewhere. And my nonexistent forum secretary is taking a nonexistent vacation. However, I read somewhere that ~ 400 lighter units were slated to join her order of battle. I was wondering if I'd missed somewhere what those definitive numbers were.

And... holy moly! This is a powerful force where over the immediate horizon the only bad guys are Sollies. There are lots of fires she has to put out. She doesn't exactly have to stay concentrated does she?

And what is the disposition of those two or three ammo ships she once had in her order?

saber964 wrote:Actually you can toss in a few more ships. IIRC Terakov's force included 1 carrier 4 cruisers and a squadron of destroyers. My best guess about Tenth Fleet on it's OrBat is as follows;
Modern
20 SD(P)
20 CLAC
12 CA
13 DD plus at least 12 more destroyers to reach stated totals in SoF of 77 ships.

Other probable deployed ships
1 12 ship squadron of Heavy Cruisers
1 12 ship squadron of Light Cruisers
1 Destroyer Flotilla of 24 ships
These ships will be conducting most of the routine patrols on the Northern and Southern Patrols and backing up customs enforcement in the various star systems.

What is the smallest possible atom this force can be broken into and still deal with the largest remaining prong of the Sollies - that turkey shoot phillies mentioned a post upstream?

And just as importantly, how many other smallest of forces can be assembled from the leftovers? And who will command them? We know that both Terekov and Oversteegen can be detached. Each of them can surely handle the responsibility on their own, come what may. Michelle Henke needs to find a way to make more fire hoses for all of the coming flare ups.

.

cthia wrote:What is the smallest possible atom this force can be broken into and still deal with the largest remaining prong of the Sollies - that turkey shoot phillies mentioned a post upstream?

And just as importantly, how many other smallest of forces can be assembled from the leftovers? And who will command them? We know that both Terekov and Oversteegen can be detached. Each of them can surely handle the responsibility on their own, come what may. Michelle Henke needs to find a way to make more fire hoses for all of the coming flare ups.

IIRC, Tangerine is not in the vicinity of the Talbot Cluster. Isn't it the staging point that the BF SD's are meeting at prior to moving on to Manticore?

That only leaves FF for Mike to deal with in her immediate vicinity. A Nike paired with a Saganami should be able to deal with any system or FF elements - pretty sure SoF established the nodal forces were...gone.

This frees up the SDs for a symbolically important task...

cthia wrote:So noted, munroburton, on your previous post.

I've always been concerned about Erewhon as much as Beowulf since the outbreak of hostilities with the League and the new alliance between Manticore and Haven. What kind of navy is the ENS these days?

I never understand that navy. Wiki reads that they couldn't build larger warships so they counted on them from a contractor in the League in a military agreement. Which involved Technodyne Industries. It states that they were refitted with Manticoran technology.

To what extent? I thought that that was not worth the effort. And who did the refitting? Erewhon itself?

Regarding the League's industrial yards. Does textev give mention of any main yards or are there just a scattering of smaller yards? In case the GA has to make a few yard calls and effect a bit of landscaping with a few Shrikes er strikes.

Maya is the key here. Oravil Barregos floated bonds to fund Erewhon's Carlucci Industries (which bonds SL Treasury Department immediately demanded to purchase). erewhon had all the pre casefire (High Ridge)Tech manual probably with Dual Drive missiles because It allowed his Admiral to standoff outside of SLN missile range but not the ones Teledyne developed and SLN refused to deploy.

They lost a lot of ships and later said they had recovered enough in new production to replace their losses. As an ally of RoH, surely Erwhon had access to SD(p)s and pod design. That makes Maya new construction slightly behind the Anderman Navy, Dual drive pods but no FTL control. Certainly a match for whatever SLN navy detachment comes bumbling all fat and happy over the wall.

Contracts are being let for SDs and other ships, but no specifics. Mostly Technodyne, I would assume. Most Shell planets have no navy beyond SAR & customs patrols as they depend on the SLN for all that military production.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Maya is the key here. Oravil Barregos floated bonds to fund Erewhon's Carlucci Industries (which bonds SL Treasury Department immediately demanded to purchase). erewhon had all the pre casefire (High Ridge)Tech manual probably with Dual Drive missiles because It allowed his Admiral to standoff outside of SLN missile range but not the ones Teledyne developed and SLN refused to deploy.

You're talking about the battle of Torch, right? The Mayan ships were clearly stated to have single drive missiles with extended runtime (called ERMs), the Erewhonese version of Manticore's old Mark 14 cruiser missile. The Mark 14 was the shorter ranged, less flexible, predecessor to the dual drive Mark 16.

Erewhone's Mark 17E, like the Mark 14, has a range of about 16.5 million km thanks to the amility of its single impeller ring to run 50% longer time than normal single drive missiles.
That's far short of the roughly 30 million km range of the Mark 16 DDM. And unlike a DDM an ERM can't add a ballistic segment to the flight.

Now we know Erewhon is working on three multidrive missiles, they just didn't have them ready for Maya in time for their confrontation with the PNE.

cthia wrote:So no hard numbers on the ENS, who I imagine are an eclectic mix of GA ships along with their own?

What I'm getting at is the obvious probability that they would be a strategic target of the SL. Can the ESN hold their own against a reasonable SL force?

Erewhonese have a junction which would make it an automatic target even without the fact that they are of utter importance to the RMN's rebuilding.

Question. Even if an invading enemy force was successful in relieving you of control of a junction, does that automatically give them control of the junction forces? Surely those missiles would be under computer control?

Acquiring the EWJ wouldn't actually help the League though, as I see it.

Erewhon using just ERMs, which actually out range cataphracts, via just a couple of the arsenal ships they sold to Maya could in all likelihood destroy any SL fleet that tried its luck. done with missiles that are only about as powerful as a pre Mod G Mk 16 at that given how weak solly armour is.

now they are a haven ally so I would expect them to have or be able to get plans for at least heaven MDMs, that combined with what manty tech they had would enable them to produce at least a DDM, even if it is the size of a manty MDM (or a Haven one), and scatter hundreds of said DDM pods around their system.

SoV victory did imply another class of ship could probably be used in their defense but i don't want to go there without a spoiler tag on this thread.

the solly's of course know none of this but they have so many probs already i don't see them trying something as stupid as to attack erewhon. especially given everything being sent from Maya about how they (maya) are slowly but surely working erewhon away from Haven and soon to join the League
If they have even crude DDMs they likely carry something close to the late 1st war manty capital missile laser heads which will easily savage solly armour.

[quote="Dauntless.[snip] ... [T]he solly's of course know none of this but they have so many probs already i don't see them trying something as stupid as to attack erewhon. especially given everything being sent from Maya about how they (maya) are slowly but surely working erewhon away from Haven and soon to join the League
If they have even crude DDMs they likely carry something close to the late 1st war manty capital missile laser heads which will easily savage solly armour.[/quote]

Right. it is Luis Barregos, the Mucky-muck of the Maya sector that needs to worry about The Mandarins figuring out that he is plotting this break from the SL.

Besides Grayson, I'm not really sure the SL even knows which systems are in or out of the GA. Erewhon is certainly trying to keep its alliance with Haven sub Rosa, at least ny more than the "defense pact" they already have.

Has the general disposition of Home Fleet changed since Oyster Bay? As in its state of readiness at all times? I know that the disposition of the USN has changed since Pearl Harbor. No one will ever catch us again with our pants down around our ankles and all "safely moored" in harbor.

Does the ramifications of Oyster Bay relegate Home Fleet to always having to sit in orbit with its impellers hot? And doesn't operating costs skyrocket and ship maintenance take a sharp dive since Oyster Bay? (W S)hore leave while orbiting probably isn't business as usual either.


Aside:
My mind is preoccupied with Pearl Harbor lately because of my oldest brother and sisters ranting on about an insanely popular book by Gordon Prange.

At 7:53 a.m., December 7, 1941, America's national consciousness and confidence were rocked as the first wave of Japanese warplanes took aim at the U.S. Naval fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor. As intense and absorbing as a suspense novel, At Dawn We Slept is the unparalleled and exhaustive account of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is widely regarded as the definitive assessment of the events surrounding one of the most daring and brilliant naval operations of all time. Through extensive research and interviews with American and Japanese leaders, Gordon W. Prange has written a remarkable historical account of the assault that-sixty years later-America cannot forget.

This book comes highly recommended. Every news source is calling it the definitive account of Pearl Harbor.

My sister doesn't do much Sci-Fi, but she imbibes everything history like its coffee. She likes it raw, dark and unsweetened. History that is.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/at-dawn ... ctInfoTabs

cthia wrote:Has the general disposition of Home Fleet changed since Oyster Bay? As in its state of readiness at all times? I know that the disposition of the USN has changed since Pearl Harbor. No one will ever catch us again with our pants down around our ankles and all "safely moored" in harbor.

Does the ramifications of Oyster Bay relegate Home Fleet to always having to sit in orbit with its impellers hot? And doesn't operating costs skyrocket and ship maintenance take a sharp dive since Oyster Bay? (W S)hore leave while orbiting probably isn't business as usual either.


Aside:
My mind is preoccupied with Pearl Harbor lately because of my oldest brother and sisters ranting on about an insanely popular book by Gordon Prange.

At 7:53 a.m., December 7, 1941, America's national consciousness and confidence were rocked as the first wave of Japanese warplanes took aim at the U.S. Naval fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor. As intense and absorbing as a suspense novel, At Dawn We Slept is the unparalleled and exhaustive account of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is widely regarded as the definitive assessment of the events surrounding one of the most daring and brilliant naval operations of all time. Through extensive research and interviews with American and Japanese leaders, Gordon W. Prange has written a remarkable historical account of the assault that-sixty years later-America cannot forget.

This book comes highly recommended. Every news source is calling it the definitive account of Pearl Harbor.

My sister doesn't do much Sci-Fi, but she imbibes everything history like its coffee. She likes it raw, dark and unsweetened. History that is.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/at-dawn ... ctInfoTabs

I haven't read At Dawn We Slept, but I can recommend Miracle At Midway by the same author as very good.

https://www.amazon.com/stream/ref=nav_u ... age_Detail