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SPOILER_ Damien Harahap

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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by McGuiness   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:19 pm

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I'm curious whether the Mesan nannites they check during his periodic doctor visits will kill him if he's interrogated. After all, he could save the GA a lot of time simply by telling them which systems he was working in.

And the nanotech IS a killer. It's possible that everyone inside the onion has been injected with it, so they're always on a countdown to death... Certainly all the agents working on "Final Flourish" had been injected with a lethal nanotech.

"He [Chernyshev]found it fitting that Marinescu herself had seen to the elimination of virtually all of her Final Flourish operatives. The ones she hadn’t shuffled off to the nuclear fireballs of the “evacuation centers” to await the shuttles that would never come would die of a plethora of “natural causes” when their nanotech didn’t receive its next reset signal."

Harahap has also been a somewhat unhappy savior of a few star systems who rebelled and won their independence, including the one where he couldn't get off planet before the balloon went up. Of course most of those revolutions would have failed without a Mantie squadron showing up overhead. OFS killed millions in one of his failed revolutions, but the rebels were less than a week from succeeding. One more arms shipment would have turned the tables.

The people in the OFS who targeted cities and towns and pushed the buttons to drop KEWs on them deserve to go up against the wall. Plus all of their commanding officers on the ships. And the officials in the planetary government who sent for OFS aid. Come to think of it, pretty much the entire OFS from top to bottom needs to go. Stop accepting surrenders and blow them away in their ships without a court martial. Had Captain Tremaine seen what OFS did to a few places where they'd been requested to help end revolutions, I bet he wouldn't have merely blown up one ship!

Yeah, Harahap lied about Manticore helping, but he gave most of the planets he worked with enough help that with just a bit more luck or time, they'd have succeeded, and some of them did.

He's dead no matter what, so I just hope he spills his guts before his nanotech does it for him! :twisted:

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by filbert   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:58 pm

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kzt wrote:Well, they should shoot him for terrible tradecraft. Firebrand? Again?

And there was no reason to bring him as far into the conspiracy as they did. Then again, the guy who recruited him knew far more than he needed to know.

If you want to bend your mind into truly pretzel-level twisty twistyness . . . consider the possibility that Harahap is actually a deep-penetration Manticoran . . . or Beowulfan . . . agent.

Yes, I know (or I *think* I know) he's nothing of the kind, but wouldn't that be just all kinds of fun?
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by McGuiness   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:55 pm

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filbert wrote:If you want to bend your mind into truly pretzel-level twisty twistyness . . . consider the possibility that Harahap is actually a deep-penetration Manticoran . . . or Beowulfan . . . agent.

Yes, I know (or I *think* I know) he's nothing of the kind, but wouldn't that be just all kinds of fun?
I gave it a shot, but I couldn't manage it with any degree of realism, since neither Beowulf or Manticore would have left any planet to the tender mercies of an OFS fleet that had been called in to squash a "rebellion." The 3.3 million civilian casualties from KEWs on the one planet alone made that exercise in twisting my mind completely futile.

Harahap is a borderline sociopath. Yes, he feels some guilt for the rebels he's setting up to be slaughtered, but only those he gets go know personally. I found it quite fitting that he was trapped on planet during one of the rebellions that he'd encouraged! The fact that he was captured when the Manties squashed the opposition was frosting on the cake.

I just hope that he can be interrogated without setting off some suicide protocols in his nanotech! :?

I realize he's described as being completely average in every way and having brown hair, but for some reason he's always appeared as Patrick Stewart in my mind! (That's "Captain Picard" from "Star Trek the Next Generation" for all you SF nerds out there.) Weird... :roll:

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by Fox2!   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:25 pm

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McGuiness wrote:[
I realize he's described as being completely average in every way and having brown hair, but for some reason he's always appeared as Patrick Stewart in my mind! (That's "Captain Picard" from "Star Trek the Next Generation" for all you SF nerds out there.) Weird... :roll:


Or Gurney Halleck from the DiLaurentis (sp?) version of Dune
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by Louis R   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:08 pm

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I'm curious about that, too. Very curious.

Actually, what I'm curious about is whether Damien Harahap will die under interrogation. I'm confident that John Q. Malignop would. Damien, though, may not be as prepped as he's assuming himself.

The devil, as they say, is in the details - and it just so happens that one detail surfaced in a discussion on the subject of Damien. Between Colin and his father, as it happens. To whit: the suicide nanotech, like the assassination tech, has to be gene coded [In fact, I suspect they are the same or closely related]. Now, Colin thinks it was implanted, but Damien was told he had to come back for some 'medical' nanos that had to be DNA coded for him. Given just how sensitive Gamma Centre was, nobody would be inviting him for a return visit if they didn't absolutely have to. Most certainly not just to provide better medical support to an outsider. Add to that the fact that, assuming the medical nanos are genuine and distinct from the suicide protocol nanos, I can't see any good reason why they'd take longer to program than the suicide set, requiring a second visit to start with, and I'm seriously wondering what was, and wasn't, implanted on that visit.

I'm confident that the delay was reported to Isobel, but would Chernyshev hear? She'd be the one making any decisions, so the medics would probably have gone straight to her - and not have confused Chernyshev with details he didn't particularly need to know at that point. It seems that Isobel was in enough of a rush to have Damien taken to the Gamma Centre to begin with - he may be the only non-member ever allowed into the place - and
that could mean that she was pushing hard enough to let him off-planet without the full set in place. Particularly if, as seems very likely, he was in the care of an _MAN_ crew with instructions to bring him back with his shield or on it.

McGuiness wrote:I'm curious whether the Mesan nannites they check during his periodic doctor visits will kill him if he's interrogated. After all, he could save the GA a lot of time simply by telling them which systems he was working in.

And the nanotech IS a killer. It's possible that everyone inside the onion has been injected with it, so they're always on a countdown to death... Certainly all the agents working on "Final Flourish" had been injected with a lethal nanotech.

"He [Chernyshev]found it fitting that Marinescu herself had seen to the elimination of virtually all of her Final Flourish operatives. The ones she hadn’t shuffled off to the nuclear fireballs of the “evacuation centers” to await the shuttles that would never come would die of a plethora of “natural causes” when their nanotech didn’t receive its next reset signal."

Harahap has also been a somewhat unhappy savior of a few star systems who rebelled and won their independence, including the one where he couldn't get off planet before the balloon went up. Of course most of those revolutions would have failed without a Mantie squadron showing up overhead. OFS killed millions in one of his failed revolutions, but the rebels were less than a week from succeeding. One more arms shipment would have turned the tables.

The people in the OFS who targeted cities and towns and pushed the buttons to drop KEWs on them deserve to go up against the wall. Plus all of their commanding officers on the ships. And the officials in the planetary government who sent for OFS aid. Come to think of it, pretty much the entire OFS from top to bottom needs to go. Stop accepting surrenders and blow them away in their ships without a court martial. Had Captain Tremaine seen what OFS did to a few places where they'd been requested to help end revolutions, I bet he wouldn't have merely blown up one ship!

Yeah, Harahap lied about Manticore helping, but he gave most of the planets he worked with enough help that with just a bit more luck or time, they'd have succeeded, and some of them did.

He's dead no matter what, so I just hope he spills his guts before his nanotech does it for him! :twisted:
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by kzt   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:42 pm

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I think you are reading too much into it. It's a lot easier to kill someone that it is to make them do complex actions involuntarily or to program Nantes so it recognizes what is supposed to be there vs infectious agents.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by JohnRoth   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:19 pm

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kzt wrote:I think you are reading too much into it. It's a lot easier to kill someone that it is to make them do complex actions involuntarily or to program Nantes so it recognizes what is supposed to be there vs infectious agents.


If the situation is as described, I think RFC is leaving himself some flexibility as to whether Firebrand can spill the beans without triggering a suicide mechanism.

The suicides we've seen so far have all been triggered by a specific cue. Detecting the cue is what takes the special programming. If the action is then to trigger a suicide program built into the nano-tech, then it's not going to be all that complicated.

We've only seen two suicides that seem to have been triggered after a substantial amount of time: the guy on Torch and the fake seccie. Everyone else seems to have been dosed just before the action.

This latter doesn't seem to be something that could happen to Harahap. It's got to be something that would lie latent for a long time, which means it's got to have a fairly sophisticated profile.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:17 am

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[quote="JohnRothThis latter doesn't seem to be something that could happen to Harahap. It's got to be something that would lie latent for a long time, which means it's got to have a fairly sophisticated profile.[/quote]


In CoG, Victor captures the undercover security guy, Lajos Irvine, who dies because his nanites didn't get the radio signal to stay dormant. don't recall that they were DNA specific like the suicide nanites (or that they weren't for that matter.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by Michael Everett   » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:32 am

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Crown Loyalist wrote:Mesa installed that suicide nanotech in him so his days are pretty well numbered.
.

YeeeeeeeeNOPE.
Sure, Mesa gave him all that healing and enhancement nanotech, but Mesan suicide nanotech has to be specifically created coded to the person's DNA. The version they use is probably an offshoot of Project Rat Poison in that it links to the brain and activates (A) if a certain period of time passes without the reset signal (B) the activation signal is sent or (C) kills the victim if they are being interrogated and start to spill specific secrets (code-word-linked).
It's noted by Bardasano that the suicide-nanites would be ready by Harahap's next visit, but there was an earth-shattering kaboom before he got back for them and everyone else assumed that he'd received the suicide-nanites.
So, rather ironically, Zilwicki and Cachat indirectly saved Harahap's life.
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Re: SPOILER_ Damien Harahap
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:47 am

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Michael Everett wrote:... It's noted by Bardasano that the suicide-nanites would be ready by Harahap's next visit, but there was an earth-shattering kaboom before he got back for them and everyone else assumed that he'd received the suicide-nanites.
So, rather ironically, Zilwicki and Cachat indirectly saved Harahap's life.


Must be way beyond the chapters posted on Baen's page. :oops:
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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