How do spider drive SD(P)'s fight?

fallsfromtrees wrote:Another interesting question. If the spider drive works by tractoring against the alpha wall, then do the Lenny Dets have a set of Warshawski sails they use when in hyper, or do they power themselves in the alpha band by tractoring against the beta wall?

I remember rather vaguely that the LDs can use the wormholes. That must mean they have Warshawski sails.

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:Another interesting question. If the spider drive works by tractoring against the alpha wall, then do the Lenny Dets have a set of Warshawski sails they use when in hyper, or do they power themselves in the alpha band by tractoring against the beta wall?

n7axw wrote:I remember rather vaguely that the LDs can use the wormholes. That must mean they have Warshawski sails.

Don

Okay. Do the spider drives work in hyper by tractoring against the next levels wall?

fallsfromtrees wrote:Another interesting question. If the spider drive works by tractoring against the alpha wall, then do the Lenny Dets have a set of Warshawski sails they use when in hyper, or do they power themselves in the alpha band by tractoring against the beta wall?

Unless they avoid grav waves and wormholes, they have Warshawski Sails. How they navigate away from grav waves is probably by tractoring the next higher hyper wall.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Another interesting question. If the spider drive works by tractoring against the alpha wall, then do the Lenny Dets have a set of Warshawski sails they use when in hyper, or do they power themselves in the alpha band by tractoring against the beta wall?

n7axw wrote:I remember rather vaguely that the LDs can use the wormholes. That must mean they have Warshawski sails.

Don

Okay. Do the spider drives work in hyper by tractoring against the next levels wall?

Somebody is probably in a position to contradict me on this one, but that would be welcome. My impression, though, is that they tractor to the alpha level of the hyer-wall. I don't recall anything being said about them entering the alpha band of hyperspace and then tractoring to the beta wall.

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:This is making the very large assumption that your opponents will never be able to detect your spider drive ships moving into place - not an assumption I would want to make - it leaves the very real possibility that your forts could get destroyed before your mobile forces enter the system, and SURPRISE, don't have to worry about someone shooting them from the back when they come out after you, just as you planned.

No, it is simply recognizing that spider drive ships aren't vulnerable to sensors and weapons that look for a wedge. No amount of technical wizardry can make spider drives show up on gravitic sensors looking for a wedge, it doesn't have a wedge for the to track or lock onto.

Lenny Dets lose the advantage of stealth if they deploy and fire pods because they're currently armed with Cataphract-C pods -- the first salvo will appear out of nowhere, but localizing the source of the missiles should be fairly easy. Locking onto a target with see-through stealth is going to be difficult with current sensors, but not necessarily impossible.

I suspect that the GA will be able to adapt FTL-comm tech to track and lock targeting systems onto a spider drive in the future, but until they do, reliance on stealth is a viable tactic.

n7axw wrote:Somebody is probably in a position to contradict me on this one, but that would be welcome. My impression, though, is that they tractor to the alpha level of the hyer-wall. I don't recall anything being said about them entering the alpha band of hyperspace and then tractoring to the beta wall.

Don

Spider Drives can navigate in Hyper and probably have streak-drive hyper generators as well, so they cannot be using the Alpha wall for traction once they go higher than the alpha band. Logically, they use the next higher wall the same way that FTL comms do.

Weird Harold wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:This is making the very large assumption that your opponents will never be able to detect your spider drive ships moving into place - not an assumption I would want to make - it leaves the very real possibility that your forts could get destroyed before your mobile forces enter the system, and SURPRISE, don't have to worry about someone shooting them from the back when they come out after you, just as you planned.

No, it is simply recognizing that spider drive ships aren't vulnerable to sensors and weapons that look for a wedge. No amount of technical wizardry can make spider drives show up on gravitic sensors looking for a wedge, it doesn't have a wedge for the to track or lock onto.

Much of the reason wedge sensors - conventional gravitics - are relied on as much as they are is that, for the very most part, if it hasn't got a wedge, it's not a threat or a target, unless it's a planet or something large orbiting one. Having to look for mines and missile pods has changed that some, but it's an ongoing process. Spider drive ships put a lot of urgency behind that process. So banking on spider drive stealth over time is banking on them remaining very hard to detect and track over time.

Lenny Dets lose the advantage of stealth if they deploy and fire pods because they're currently armed with Cataphract-C pods -- the first salvo will appear out of nowhere, but localizing the source of the missiles should be fairly easy. Locking onto a target with see-through stealth is going to be difficult with current sensors, but not necessarily impossible.

I suspect that the GA will be able to adapt FTL-comm tech to track and lock targeting systems onto a spider drive in the future, but until they do, reliance on stealth is a viable tactic.

But do you think the stealth is a nice extra for the LD's - enjoy it while you can, with Oyster Bay just making the most of a new technology before anyone can counter it - with plans for them that do not revolve around it once it does get countered, or is the entire class something that the MAN expects to retire in a few years once the counter is available?

JeffEngel wrote:
But do you think the stealth is a nice extra for the LD's - enjoy it while you can, with Oyster Bay just making the most of a new technology before anyone can counter it - with plans for them that do not revolve around it once it does get countered, or is the entire class something that the MAN expects to retire in a few years once the counter is available?

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My suspicion is the LD's are the RF / MAN's de-stabilizing tool for targeted systems.

Scenario -- undetectable alien ships launch attack (the LD's) and a patrolling squadron of ships conveniently arrive and drive off the invaders earning the love, loyalty and danegeld of a system that asks for protection.

just a thought from a suspicious mind.

-- Stewart

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:Somebody is probably in a position to contradict me on this one, but that would be welcome. My impression, though, is that they tractor to the alpha level of the hyer-wall. I don't recall anything being said about them entering the alpha band of hyperspace and then tractoring to the beta wall.

Don

Spider Drives can navigate in Hyper and probably have streak-drive hyper generators as well, so they cannot be using the Alpha wall for traction once they go higher than the alpha band. Logically, they use the next higher wall the same way that FTL comms do.

Your logic is impeccable, sir. Unfortunately logic can be a way of being wtong with confidence...which is just my smart-arsed way of saying that I wish we had a bit more textev or evidence on how this works...

Don

JeffEngel wrote:But do you think the stealth is a nice extra for the LD's - enjoy it while you can, with Oyster Bay just making the most of a new technology before anyone can counter it - with plans for them that do not revolve around it once it does get countered, or is the entire class something that the MAN expects to retire in a few years once the counter is available?

I dont expect the Lenny Dets to be retired as soon as their stealth advantage is whittled away any more than the Shrike LAC was retired when the RHN developed a counter for them.

I do expect the Lenny Dets to be able to stand toe-to-toe with an equivalent number of conventional pod-layers for about as long as Manticore held a monopoly on the pod-layer concept.